Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I agree with you.

It’s intrusive and wholly unnecessary.

Most of the time I use Advanced Search to advance search myself, to find something that I posted ages ago with a bit of information/useful link that I can't find again.

Delighted she’s noticed and plans to act on it. The pile ons are horrendous and most definitely put people off posting - myself included.

Horses and stable doors spring to mind

I’ve used the site for almost 20 years. Left for a few years after getting piled on by the pro breast feeders on here and decided it wasn’t a kind place. Now if anything happens where one of my posts gets picked apart I just hide the thread.

You can't mention any at all? Surely if it is a huge and even obvious problem here is the place to air it? Don't mention posters, just the subject matter?

People's posting styles can be very identifiable.

I'd rather not. I'm happy to say that it's something I feel is happening and it's difficult to address.

I do too, and it is necessary far more often than it should be.

And means you don't get to see useful responses unless you can bear to wade back in. Not good really.

I wonder if engagement is dropping off and they've finally realised it's because people just think the site is too mean now. I've noticed that a lot of threads barely get above 200 comments before fizzling out now – even in Trending. It's a rare thread that fills up 40 pages.

I find Reddit much more palatable and its daily active users are up 21% this year.

I wish they would pull threads that speculate on news events. While it's fine for people to want to discuss things like the recent train attack, the threads were absolutely disgraceful. They were full of racism and certain posters desperately trying to push the narrative that it must be terrorists/immigrants/asylum seekers. Funnily enough when it turned out that the suspect was British, it wasn't terrorism and that the hero guard was an immigrant, they all melted away with no acknowledgement they were wrong. We saw the same with the Southport murders. Why are MN allowing these to stand when the police have asked people not to speculate and to wait for their investigations? The riots after the Southport attack shows just where this sort of misinformation leads and I don't understand why MN would want any part in that.

The threads on the Nicola Bulley case were a different type of speculation, but still in spectacularly poor taste.

Frankly, even Telly Addicts isn't immune. I am bored of people coming on there to spew hatred about some communities (often it seems subconscious if I am being kind) . In one case recently I don't think any of those people were even watching the TV drama- they just wanted to pass comment and express outrage. The most gentle, warm hug craft show type programmes have people bewailing the representative quality of those shows. The thread gets derailed and people bicker. It's not nice. And then there are the posters who just want to tell an OP off for her distinctive use of capital letters. It's bitchy.

MN has become more like this. Posters are bolder about mocking whole groups of people or patrolling the presentation and self presentation of people from minorities. I have reported frequently and been told it doesn't break talk guidelines to be rampantly homophobic - and yes transphobic- (this is an HQ blindspot). Traitors, Strictly, Bake Off, Pottery Throwdown, BGT : all have had really unpleasant phobes of all stripes going unchecked.

I have also experienced the thing mentioned up thread of being asked to trawl through a thread myself and report every single unpleasant post. I am not sure why people paid by HQ can't look through a thread to see the behaviour of some posters.

I think the mods do know though, but it’s traffic, so they just say ‘nothing to see here’. It’s shortsighted of them because as you say, those who know get pissed off, and when there are a huge number of these persistent trolls, it puts them off using the site. Then we end up where we are now, with the core demographic getting increasingly annoyed and many leaving the site, meaning a higher percentage of people here are trolls. For Justine to respond, the penny has finally dropped and things must be bad!

I wonder if she’d reconsider allowing posters to block people? Instead of having to hide threads it would be a damn site easier to hide posters.

Perhaps there could be a this thread had been updated by op at the top?

Before I post I read the whole thread or at the v least the last page or op posts to see if there’s been a change.

Not at all. Everything posted here is in the public domain. How, therefore, is reading someone’s previous posts intrusive? Posters should own what they post.

And it’s not unnecessary at all, as I said upthread. If I suspect someone is trolling, it can give me a bit more evidence to pass on to MNHQ when I report them.

Someone posted a link to suggestions / ideas to ya ole this. Could anyone link it please? I can’t find it now!

Absolutely.

Eta: if name changing was not allowed and mnhq had a better grip on pbps and other dodgy posters there might be an argument for getting rid of AS.

This one? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5445175-tighter-moderation-2-suggestions

Brilliant thank you!

Moderation yes, not blocking posters for posting just one comment

Yes! Or people making assumptions about anything anyone has done in the worst possible light.

To make up an example - someone donates some money to charity and the assumption will be leapt to that it's for the publicity or a tax break or whatever and not because it's a good thing to do, regardless of their stated intention or previous behaviour.

If you can block posters who have opinions you don’t like it will end up a rather odd echo chamber

I like MN as a place where you can't block posters whose opinions you don't like. I don't want an echo chamber and there are very few places left on the internet now where this isn't the case.

Like some other people who have already posted on here have suggested I suspect that MN turn a blind eye to some awful threads as they drive traffic. I wonder whether this is starting to bite them in the arse. Advertisers like sites with high traffic, but most don't want their products associated with racism, ableism etc. Plus trolls, bots and people paid to post misinformation are not likely to be buying their products.