Friend still believes in "chavs"?

[waytoooldforthisshite]

Had a funny (well, slightly depressing) conversation today. my friend came round all flustered, telling me that she'd been "harassed by chavs" outside the shop. One was some teenager who asked for her number 🙄

Tried to explain that "chavs" aren't even real, it's a tabloid invented stereotype/myth from the early 2000s that was basically used to demonise working class people. But she just went on about it like she was quoting The Sun from 2004. I ended up showing her this article. She's 39.... and I expected her to know a bit better but what can ya do eh?

Just feels so outdated now. You don't really hear anyone say "chav" anymore (thankfully), and it's weird how those old class-based stereotypes still linger. I honestly felt like I'd timetravelled back to the Little Britain era 😂

Anyone else still know people who talk like that?

Your poor friend had an unpleasant experience being bothered when out and about minding her own business and then to top it off gets a lecture from you about her terminology. You are supposed to like your friends and be on their side!

Anyone quoting Owen Jones as an authority doesn't need to be taken seriously.

Your second source is a review of your first source! Whether it agrees or disagrees it doesn't count as a separate piece of authorative research.

Exactly.

Take a good hard look around in any public space.

So typically mumsnet that it’s perfectly fine to use a classist slur but as soon as someone on here says ‘old lady’ everyone’s screaming about ageism and getting offended 😂😂😂

I think that’s generally just based on taste or what’s appropriate rather than class. Known several middle class kids with the most ridiculous names.

It’s not terminology I would use but why did you feel the need to tell her off?

@waytoooldforthisshite My kids use the word and have done ever since they were 13. Completely independently of me, I did not teach it to them. They have learnt it from other kids. It is very much in active usage, whether you approve of it or not.

I'm not sure what your point is. It was never seen as a "good" word and has always been a very descriptive one. These people will never go away.

Chav is still used by teens round here but to describe an aesthetic. DD1 will say her style is a bit chav meaning fake tan, lots of make up, certain brands etc.

It's classist because it's a caricature invented by the middle/upper class media to demonise working class people. It never was a subculture people in any significant degree identified with or as.

Well many people in prisons don’t self identify as criminals - doesn’t change that that’s what they are.

Just because a subculture is identified from the outside doesn’t stop it being an observation of culture. Plenty of people are perceived as a certain culture even if they don’t identify this way. This paper shows that there are differences between people who meet the definition of chav and those who don’t:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0be9/d39d2e38854819d2a2886d8cb9b59964bd1c.pdf

But the fact we could all identify that Vicky Pollard was a chav without being told, means it does exist as a concept. Brash, rude people wearing branded or fake sportswear and blingy jewellery ARE chavs, whether they agree or not. Quiet working class people in supermarket clothes are not chavs - it’s more and different than just being working class. And people might find it an offensive slur, but that’s because it encompasses an unpleasant behaviour pattern and has been parodied into being uncool - so of course people who care about being cool (which is part of being a chav) don’t want to identify as something that is openly ridiculed.

Funnily enough, I was watching a programme last night about punk music. And punk was absolutely an 'insult, a box created by outsiders'.

I actually can't believe you took issue with your friend calling people chavs within this context. Who are you to decide they would rather be called scum than chavs? She was upset and had been harassed by people behaving appallingly.

It's when you apply it to people based on their looks or accent, their income or where they're from it becomes problematic. She was applying it based on their behaviour, which was shit!

Because classism is a major pet peeve of mine. You won't hear the end of it if I'm shopping with you and come across anti homeless benches. It's something that just really pisses me off big time.

And thats just the staff!!

Of course they exist. People just say "roadmen" now.
Whatever - groups of scummy teens who make everyone else's lives a misery.

Why is the term “scummy fucker” less offensive than “chav?”

I would still use the term Chav in this situation, I am also working class, however I don't read tabloids.

Then why use the word "chav" to describe the name? It's because it has definite class connotations.

Is this all because someone called you a chav once?
I mean, you either set up a MN account just for this or name changed.

I always understood it to mean an under-class. Most of whom didn’t work. eg Vicki Pollard. Unfortunately, not so much of a caricature.

I can't imagine anyone reading your posts here would EVER choose to shop with you.

It’s never meant working class to me. I always thought it referred to a very much not working under class.

'Chavs' does not denote working class people. 'Working class' covers a wide range. 'Chav' denotes ignorant, stupid, often semi-lterate people.

You know what…. I don’t believe there is a friend

I think the Op is alone, bored and wanted to start a thread and this is the best she could come up with