Friend still believes in "chavs"?

[waytoooldforthisshite]

Had a funny (well, slightly depressing) conversation today. my friend came round all flustered, telling me that she'd been "harassed by chavs" outside the shop. One was some teenager who asked for her number 🙄

Tried to explain that "chavs" aren't even real, it's a tabloid invented stereotype/myth from the early 2000s that was basically used to demonise working class people. But she just went on about it like she was quoting The Sun from 2004. I ended up showing her this article. She's 39.... and I expected her to know a bit better but what can ya do eh?

Just feels so outdated now. You don't really hear anyone say "chav" anymore (thankfully), and it's weird how those old class-based stereotypes still linger. I honestly felt like I'd timetravelled back to the Little Britain era 😂

Anyone else still know people who talk like that?

I don't believe the op

You mean implying that working class and underclass (obviously very different) people's problems are all the fault of other people? I suppose variations of that argument have been used for a long time...it's bad because obviously government etc bears some responsibility for a lot of issues, but as you say, acting as if people have no ability to avoid bad choices helps no one and ignores reality.

It’s such a ridiculous post isn’t it? I wouldn’t describe the majority of people who have money as being stuck up or snobby, and I wouldn’t describe a low income/working class family as a chav. OP seems to be confused with the definition and the only one discriminating.

If there are a group of teenagers or adults who are being abusive, threatening and displaying anti-social behaviour etc (happens in every town), then I think the least we can do is call them out as ‘chavs’ and make their behaviour as unattractive as possible. I want my kids to know which groups to avoid.

Rough accent? Ofc people can roughly/ungramatically, but what counts as a 'rough' accent in your view?

OP, how do you feel about the terms yummy mummies, disney dads, stepford wives, tree huggers, eco-loons?? Or do these people not exist either?

All derogatory terms and you clearly don't like that, that's fine. But you can't argue they don't exist 😆.

OP is on the wind-up, no-one is this thick.

But I do have a great mental image of her trying to convince a group of chavs that they don't exist

I'm Scottish so for me it's people who speak in a combination of a slang tone and a weird kind of rythm to their speech which comes off as brash and loud. This type of person will be kind of loud and in your face. There is not always a correlation with accent so I wouldn't make a snap judgement but it will tend that people from rougher areas will be chavvy or neddy as we say

@Carla786 I'm not sure, really. I think it's maybe a sort of long term cycle of knowing people think you're scummy and acting up to it in a sort of angry response to that knowledge, which becomes generational.

Like a kid being aware that he looks like a little thug who might do something bad, and he gets looked up and down, so he gets pissed off with that expectation and mugs you because now he's angry and punishing you for thinking that; for that being the stereotype. I work in a difficult school now and see It play out quite often - you think I'll punch you, so I will... It goes round in circles and becomes habitual. I think something like that but on a much larger scale. And one that becomes ingrained and taught to your kids as a known fact. And it's hard to undo, because kids are actively taught to mistrust any forms of authority, like schools, police, social services etc. so children won't trust anything that's meant to support without an individual relationship being built, which takes time and people that don't always exist. Even then you might not get through.Then the cycle continues, but more entrenched. You don't feel part of any kind of society and no reason to feel anything towards anyone or care about their feelings or your impact on them. I didn't want my kids to grow up how I did, because a lot of horrible things happened to me I couldn't countenance for them. I essentially acted my way out of it, and taught myself a different way of life like moving to a different country, and they have had a completely different childhood to mine. I was lucky to be naturally intelligent, so it was easy enough to catch up in life when I decided to do things differently. It's been well over a decade of pretending (because that's how it felt) and I do very genuinely feel like a proper and useful part of society these days - responsible job and everything!

Happy to admit that I’ve got a ‘rough’ accent- strong Northern accent and don’t give a shit. If people think it denotes a working class / underprivileged background they’d be right. I’m married to an ex-public schoolboy who went to Oxbridge. His accent is posh and also denotes where he’s come from. That’s what accents do.

If you say the word chav in the mirror 5 times you will summon one, whether you believe or not.

And I bet her eyes wanted to roll back so far in her head. Poor, right on, earnest OP. If I was the friend I’d be very annoyed.

Oh, they exist. Lucky me lives next to one - rowing with her face-tattooed boyfriend outside my door at 6am and waking me up. Chav, chav, chav.

In my mind, it's like "oik" - it's about behaviour not class / income etc. Prince Andrew, for instance, is a prize oik. Ditto Boris Johnson.

I'm 37 and I wouldn't class chav as only someone who is working class. I remember those Louis Vuitton bags and lots of people used to say they were "chavy". Paris Hilton was chavy to me in 2004 and she isn't poor.

It's a word taken from London slang where a lot of the demographic effected by the behaviour associated with that word is sadly young black boys, but I think social media has made that term so popular amongst young people I've heard it used outside London lots too, towards young white boys dressed in a similar way to what previously would be called a chav. Girls are often described as 'road' too but chav is still the word used to describe them for the most part, if they dress and act like this. The same goes for posh kids tbh. They just get called posh twats which isn't any kinder.

What about working class people who use it? You don’t need to be looking at it as a sub culture, most people use it to describe an anti-social gobby public nuisance.

It has never been used as a blanket description of working class people.

That must have been tedious for her to listen to.

Over here, Chav is not the same as working class. I'm working class but wouldn't describe myself as a chav.... (Maybe other people might haha) But I know what a chav is when I see one!!

Exactly. 'It costs a lot to look this cheap' comes to mind.

This is a gypsy word, right?

I don't know about that but I googled and found this:

"In the UK, "chav" is a derogatory slang term for a young person of a low social status, typically characterized by brash or loutish behavior and the wearing of flashy or designer-style clothes and jewellery. The term is widely considered to be a form of class abuse or "social racism" that demonizes the working class."

I don't agree about the 'working class' bit, more like 'under class'. I've come across people who are quite well off who fit the bill, they may have come from working class backgrounds but have done well financially. There's a family who post reels giving every detail of their lives on facebook (the dad calls himself a 'content creator'), who are definitely in this category. They have loads of semi-literate chav followers :-). I don't 'follow' them but come across them quite often.

Chav isn't the same as working class anywhere other than in the OPs head.

Yeah definitely. The term chav has been used for at least 20 years. it was also used to describe clothes, make-up styles etc. too. Definitely never was just a sweeping term for working class as the people using the term were also working class! I live and work in a working class area and we all know what people mean when they use the term chav.

There are plenty of working class people who no one would describe as chavs! And there are middle class people who we may say look like chavs!

It's similar to calling groups of violent young men 'Yobs' etc etc.

I don't see why the Op finds it so deeply offensive.

I see this thread has brought out a few snide comments about Katie price. In no way shape or form is Katie a chav wtf I know the definition is contested but whether you think it’s a Romani gypsy word for a young boy or council housed and violent none of those things apply to Katie price!
Personally when I hear chav I think of a naughty teenage boy lurking in town centres selling drugs and threatening anyone who looks at him for longer than 0.01 seconds.

what is the problem people have with Katie price on here a mother of four who’s had her every move scrutinised by the limelight since before she was even an official adult

There are many, many worse things Katie Price can be called than a Chav. Look at the number of animals that have died in her care, for example.

You are joking, right?