Is primary school more demanding than in the 80/90s??

[RessicaJabbit]

My child is 6 and is UTTERLY EXHAUSTED from school since starting Reception.
My mum says she doesn't remember us 3 being like this after school... hungry, tired overwhelmed etc
Is it because school is more intense? Or maybe life around it is the cause, kids doing too many clubs etc?

My does football, swimming and rainbows.

I was absolutely shocked at what expected of very young children, compared to my own school memories, when I first worked in school.

Yet outcomes don't seem to be much different.

A lot of the stuff that used to be taught in secondary has been brought into primary. Brought forward by a few years. Especially in Maths.
The curriculum is several years ahead of child development and whoever wrote it is ignorant of child development.
Testing is needed of course but not the kind of crap where they test which of course they should do but not share thr information with parents.
So the change is the curriculum is age inappropriate, child development isn't considered and child's performance isn't shared with parents except vague yearly reporting so you have no objective idea how they are doing until the sats in year 6 or gcses.
Reports with marks and grades no longer sent home or contextual information unless its year 6 sats.
So let's put as much pressure on little kids as possible and never let parents or kids know how they do. That much for accountability or transparency. Almost like the whole thing was designed by a nutter.

Too many clubs. Parents wanting their kids in all sorts as it’s become so competitive.

But during the school day I would say bring back assembly with nice hymns and country dancing. I know I’m right 😁

Yeah it's okay for a September kid who is a year older than the August kid and also had an extra year of preschool education compared to a kid born in the last term.
That's not okay for most kids though and isn't an achievement on behalf of the kid or your behalf.

Kids get tired as they are from school. Some silly parents start driving them to additional activities the place over to advance and accelerate them.

Those of you who were the oldest in the year in most cases you mean. Being a quarter of a life time older than the youngest in the year and having sat in nursery for an extra year doesn't make you "bright".
The bright ones are the struggling 4 year olds pulling off the curriculum for kids a year or more older then themselves.

The problem with schools is that they can never cater to every child all the time. There are children who are less academic who will struggle in a rigorous academic setting and there are the very academic children who struggle being held back by the curriculum. It is enormously difficult for education department to devise a curriculum that fits everyone. I come from an academic family. My children found primary school straightforward. Didn’t struggle at all. Weren’t over tired. Just on with it and they got practically full marks in their SAT’s. They didn’t do anything special other than be born with a predilection for studying. There were children who were far more creative in the school though who, no doubt, found the curriculum boring and would have preferred more art and drama. My children would have hated that!
it is very difficult to find that right balance.

When attempting "home learning" in y2 & 3 during Covid, the grammar expectations were ridiculous. DS was too young to have his dyslexia assessed and diagnosed, but he was expected to learn grammar like "co-ordinating conjunctions and "fronted adverbials".
DS1 knew he had split digraphs in his name long before he could actually write the letters in the right order.

Some of this terminology was new to me despite strong GCSEs and A-Levels in English and MFL.

It's very demotivating for children to struggle with rigid content from a young age when more play and creativity are developmentally more appropriate.

That leads me to consider a question that would be worth a thread in its own right; does reduced play and creativity in school reduce the drive to play and be creative at home? (Particularly problematic in a screen-heavy world)
DS2 stopped playing shortly after he turned 7... it was lockdown and his play fizzled out after about 3 months after being prohibited from playing with anyone but his autistic 9yo brother. He just seemed to run out of inspiration quite abruptly. DS1 had played for longer and it waned more gradually although his play had always been quite limited and repetitive (although he does still like things such as Warhammer into his teenage years)

I think so, but luckily DD is thriving and seems to be ahead of the curve. I do know a few children struggle and require more support at home. Also I didn’t do anywhere near the amount of extra activities as DD does (but again she loves it).

What is her energy levels like in the holidays.?

Her kids sounds like mine, it’s not because she’s just a September child, mines also on yr4 reading. She’s just an outlier in this respect. I do think age makes a difference though. Most of the kids on my DD’s ability table are born in autumn winter but they are doing stretch work so ability level is catered for at Dd’s school.

If you are talking to me it’s the same, she’s just an “on the go” person. I’m the opposite tbh. I thought she may have adhd but school said they didn’t think so, she’s focusing fine and was doing stretch end of yr 1 maths in reception so I think this is just who she is. She will sleep in an extra hour on weekend days but thats it.

Born in the 60s. I went to swimming club three times a week, Brownies once, and piano lesson once.

Primary school is far and away a different beast to when I was ther ein the 1970s. My son did things at primary that we didn’t even get to in o-level mathematics for example. The tide has risen lifting almost all boats as children in general are very capable, but there has definitely been a cost.

I run a young group for kids aged 4-6. They are still so little and whilst we are offered EYFS info actually they just want to run around and play the same games over and over. Fabulous, I just create a theme each week and tweak some of their favourite activities and games to match it and away they go. They are stifled in school and it's wonderful to see them just being children for an hour a week. I don't care if they can't write their names or read yet we just get back to basics on what being a kid is meant to be.

I would say, the difference in writing I saw from all the kids (they post the kids work outside the classroom) was amazing. Even the kids I know who struggle a bit made massive strides. I was genuinely surprised at how much progress mine made in reception, from barely being able to write her name legibly to writing sentences. I think the stretch did them good. I would also say early years does involve lots of moving around thats built into the day. Maybe just Dd’s school but they are really creative with the themes and curriculum.

I think given we managed to halt our slide on pisa rankings, overall the changes have been good for children. It’s definitely more challenging but I don’t think thats a bad thing. The maths curriculum is fine imo, theres a lot of focus on number sense and they seem to really take their time over it in the very early years of primary to set up the more challenging expectations later.

Personally I think it’s great and shouldn’t be messed with. Lowering standards is never a good thing. There are always outliers, kids who struggle and kids who need a bit more but generally I think whatever changes have taken place are good overall.

I do think though theres been a shift in parenting, the school readiness report demonstrated how parents generally seem to think they should be doing less and less themselves. I was already reading before I started school and was generally self sufficient, could use the bathroom, could get myself dressed and undressed, follow instructions etc. i think in an environment where more and more kids are starting school without basic school readiness, this teaching level will be hard for teachers to deliver.

Something I had in primary school which doesn't seem to be the case quite as much now, certainly not in my daughter's primary, is sets. She's primary 6 now and this is the first year she's been in any kind of set groups by ability, except a few times children were separated for reading groups and now they don't have reading groups at all, which I think is an insane set-up. Children of all differing abilities and levels and development stages spread across the whole classroom for every subject, the priority seeming to be who is sitting in between the disruptive kids.

I see a huge difference between my 19year old and my 6year old. I also think the high pressure is the cause of ND children not coping, previously they coped and didn’t need/get diagnosis as things were more relaxed.

Not giving the results of tests is ridiculous, how can they know what they got wrong if they don't get the results??
They get lots of tests in Finland but the children get their test papers back so they can see how well they did and see what they get wrong so they know what they need to work on. And parents get results in the school app, and the papers get sent home to be signed by a parent before being returned, so the teacher knows parents have seen it.

Yes massively, the expectations are ridiculously high and the curriculum is far, far too big.

Around 15-20% of children are HSPs (Highly Sensitive Person). HSPs process everything around them on a far deeper level, and need down time after an increasingly intense school day. The noise, bustle, complexity of social interactions tires them. Without adequate rest to process they will easily become overwhelmed, tearful, etc. It will not suit their temperament at all to go from a demanding school day to activity to activity. They really need quiet time alone or with less people.

Whilst they will show understandable reactions to what is absolutely a more demanding school day earlier than non-HSPs, they will also be struggling, but it may be less noticeable.

I went to primary in the 80s. We finished at 345 and there was a lot of sitting at desks and daily assemblies with hymns and prayers (not a religious school). It was really boring but we just got left to it a lot - the teacher would do some teaching at the start but we were expected to sit still and work through exercises ourselves while the teacher marked other work. Poor behaviour was not tolerated - there were some children who spent forever sitting outside the head’s office. It was boring for the gifted people and the people who struggled but for everyone else it was ok - it was not expected to be fun. We would spend ages rehearsing school assemblies to the point of perfection and there was a lot of expensive card and paper used on wall displays and props for assemblies. School would usually supply costumes.

Parental expectations changed - they don’t want too much pressure on their children but will seek out schools with excellent Ofsted reports, impressive SATs results and schools renowned for high standards of behaviour and lots of homework. They want their child to be better than the rest so will give them extra tutoring and take them to lots of extracurriculars.

Although I’m not a fan of excessive screen time, it seems like the equivalent of when I was young and we spent too long watching TV. Not just a bit of Grange Hill but putting it on as soon as we got home and watching it all evening and at the weekends too. Lots of people weren’t out on their bikes every day.

And the food was crap too, but smaller portions and if you didn’t like it you just had to go hungry until the next meal.

It’s interesting you say that my Dd’s teacher at nursery was convinced that my DD was a highly sensitive person. She still can’t tolerate too much noise and she’s watchful before she engages. But honestly we just ploughed straight ahead. The world is not going to accommodate her, she will have to make a DD shape in the world. Life is hard, I don’t think we do our kids any favours by making things easier and easier for them and then we act surprised when they can’t cope later. Applying a little pressure is good, too much pressure can make a person collapse.

Honestly I think we should be helping our kids reach expectations rather than asking they are lowered so it’s easier for them to achieve.

I kind of agree, but this can be achieved in an understanding way. There is nothing wrong, for example, with allowing a HSP more time to watch and to join in at their own pace, showing them some grace and patience. Or letting them know they can take themselves off to a quiet space either at school/home/during a social event for a short time to help manage their feelings of being overstimulated. Their nervous system is different, so you can’t force them as they can’t control that.

I had a friend at secondary school who understood my initial reluctance to attend a sleepover. She cheerfully kept inviting me. I did really want to go, and she put me so at ease that I did eventually. Once I’d done it once I was fine and round hers all the time! We are still friends almost 30 years later. She’s definitely a non-HSP, but understands us for sure! It is much appreciated.