To be scared about how we will cope with more tax rises - council tax

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i really loathe this government. Usually with politics I feel like whoever is in charge I don’t notice much of a direct impact on my day to day life. Yes I’m aware of slow erosions in public services and I was no fan at all of the tories, I voted for this government im ashamed to say, and they lied and lied about their plans. I am so much worse off and if they double council tax bands virtually all of our disposable income is going to be gone. It feels like theft. I don’t trust them to spend the money I make properly it all feels corrupt and it’s just so depressing and upsetting.

I have no issue with what I’m paying now (£380 a month). I have an issue with this being doubled.

I think most people are quite happy to contribute to most services. However there needs to be a Great Rethink on certain areas, namely adult care and children’s services, which are swallowing oceans of money.

I would build national care homes, not pay private homes. National homes would be good quality, but basic. Like old cottage hospitals, in fact (which surprisingly were done away with).

Bussing children round the county at vast expense (I saw bloke who has school transport contract is squillionaire) can’t go on. I know a woman whose ds is collected by two escorts every day and driven 20 miles away, and then home. She says she thinks the provision must be bankrupting the county. I don’t know the answer, but there must be some sort of alternative to this expenditure.

I don't think anyone resents paying more tax but they resent paying more tax when it's not spent properly. Home-to-school transport costs in England have risen to £2.3bn a year, as increasing numbers of children with special educational needs and disabilities travel farther afield to schools that can meet their requirements, according to a report. This is the kind of thing people don't want to pay for because for the figure to be that high something has gone very, very wrong. An estimated 16.1 million people had some form of disability in the UK last year, representing 24% of the total population. That just cannot be true.

People are willing to pay more but it's conditional on two things. Taxing the very richest proportionately and sorting out welfare. If neither of those two things are part of the deal, expect some real fireworks. They can't keep coming for those with a bit spare to continue paying for those who are taking the piss.

@Moleinthegardenhow does a pay as you go system work for people who can't pay?

Tough?

What do you think are the societal implications of a collective 'tough' approach?

You will be walking and driving on dark, unmaintained streets.

And we are, increasingly.

We have a basic rubbish collection, the pavements need fixing, the roads are potholed, the street sweepers are gone, rubbish everywhere, council can't be arsed to answer a simple email, parks and playgrounds neglected. Graffiti everywhere. Libraries open sporadically.

And they have the audacity to ask for more money.

Would you prefer to live without a police force and fire service? No road maintenance?

I assume you have no DC or DGC making use of state education. Nevertheless the state education provided to other children by your Council goes a long way to keeping you safer and keeping your property intact (by giving those children a future)

If you can't pay you don't get the service. If you need a service you save for it. Yes it will be tough but there is no money and people have had enough of paying for random people who are nothing to do with them.

If you want people to be charitable, they will be but I instead focus on extended family and friends.

I'm going to be honest with you. I feel sorry for you, having this view.

You've obviously lived a very lucky and sheltered life.

I'm not willing to live in a country where the poor suffer simply for not having enough.

@Moleinthegardenalso to move out of the ideological and into reality, are you suggesting that the police would only respond to your emergency call if you had the funds to 'pay for the service'? That poorer families simply wouldn't have refuse collection services so the waste would just, I don't know, pile up?

Is this really a world you want to live in?

There would be an upfront annual payment if you wanted to qualify for emergency ambulances. The advantage of this is they really would be prompt and immediate. People wouldn't be worse off as they would have control how their old council tax payment is spent.

It is in replacement of not in addition to the current council tax.

The poor always suffer from not having enough. The extent of their suffering is all that changes. If you aren't suffering then you probably aren't truly poor. We have relative poverty in the UK but on a global perspective most people are not poor.

There is a huge gulf between the poor having very basic services provided for them and treating everyone the absolute same irrespective of who is actually footing the bill for everything. I think most people feel that they would rather a society that does the latter and maintains some motivation for individuals to better themselves and work their way out of poverty. You see it with care homes and housing already. Some people are expected to work very hard to earn money to pay for something that someone else gets for free. People don't want to be taxed to subsidise people that aren't even trying.

You might not be willing to live in a country where the poor suffer but you probably won't get a choice no matter who is next in government. We simply can't afford the welfare system that do many are dependent on. A few tax rises here and there aren't enough, we need some pretty major cuts and restrictions.

Totally agree

Not at all. I don't expect something for nothing and live very frugally.

Yeah but if Reform get in, they won't, but if they did watch the stock markets tank. No business is going to invest if they can't see stability in the leadership, do you think that Mr Farage is going to give that? He doesn't do his current job as MP of Clacton, his Brexit experiment is largely seen as a disaster, and he didn't do his EU MP for Fisheries for the UK when he was that. He is a very good showman, he is, but what else is he good at? He is in and has been in a position to be part of the solutions but he just doesn't turn up. Why would anyone vote for this charlatan? Reform aren't being run as a usual democratic party in the UK, it's more of a limited business arrangement people pay sponsorship to, you are not a member like you are with Conservative or Labour. There is no accountability. None.

I have only been aware of one doctors strike since labour got in. Our local transport system has been joined up and is much more accessible and has a wider variety of destinations. The inevitable housing developments are being enforced to provide green space, and not just the flat grass but to keep existing spaces with mature trees.

These may sound like small changes. But after years and years of services being cut they are changes that affect more people than first appears. Having a reliable bus service enables seniors without cars stay more mobile and connected to the community. And let's teens without cars go out and have independence for work and leisure.

Extremely potholed roads have been completely resurfaced rather than being patched up, with drainage cleared, a joined up thinking for the homeless has all but eliminated the tents in the underpasses.

Dedicated cycle lanes are being increased, the local hospital is being expanded. Reform will remove the financial contributions developers have to give to the local area (all for a fat donation to a Cayman Island account of course).

Having areas with an increasingly mobile and healthy younger population will attract business investment, if they know they can get the workforce there.

It is not a zero sum game for those who contribute more. And it's most definitely a lot more than "bins". No one knows if they will be able to keep driving for a variety of reasons, or if they are financially pressured to get rid of one or all of their cars, they would welcome reliable, safe public transport then.

These are real, positive benefits since we have had local labour MPs. How is any of this a backward step? And if further progress means a bit more tax from all of us, because that is what it will be, I think it's good value if it is used correctly and round here with Labour MPs (finally) it seems to be. So I don't have any complaints with our local MPs, because they are the ones who have more of an effect on our daily lives.

@frozendaisy Extremely potholed roads have been completely resurfaced rather than being patched up, with drainage cleared, a joined up thinking for the homeless has all but eliminated the tents in the underpasses.

I don't know where you live, but it can't be England. That is definitely not happening across the country. Count yourself lucky.

@Moleinthegardenwow, so you genuinely think poor children shouldn't get access to emergency ambulances if their parents can't pay the annual fee.

That's gross.

And how much would that be exactly? Say 30 households in your village could afford it, so you have to pay x2 paramedics a salary and the upkeep of an ambulance. So say £4000 a year per household just in case you need an ambulance, but they wouldn't be there straight away would they? They would have to check if you had paid your dues, and that would mean you would need some way of confirming that, and what if you needed an ambulance out of area, say on a road travelling, but you haven't paid for an ambulance in that area? Would you then get billed the £4000 for daring to need one elsewhere? And what if none of you needed an ambulance, these fees would clearly be none refundable, would you have paramedics sitting around for a year just waiting whilst others are gasping for breath? What if they become deskilled through lack of use, can you then be charged for yearly training to keep up their skills?

Would you also be liable as a group for NI contributions? and what about holidays?

Say 10 of the households decide the following year that it's not a payment they want or can justify, and of course fuel and wages have gone up, doesn't that mean that the outstanding 20 will have to £7000 the following year? Supply and demand.

There are a lot of things to consider with this.

Well I do, perhaps we just have a council that is running better with a vision and are implementing things that do make a difference.

I was just trying to offer a balance argument to the doom and gloom and that there are individual gains via a societal level.

It is England. Just to clarify.

But we don't sit here passively whinging about things, our teens are going to a "youth meet the MP" session soon, as they want to hear what they think would be of benefit for teens and young adults. And they should go and speak up.

You can be politically and community beneficial quietly, without doing it just online from the safety of your sofa. That's all very lovely but ineffective.

If you have good ideas you can at least try to get them heard and considered.

Most Councils don't have anywhere enough money to even begin to consider doing the things that your Council have done. We have potholed roads and crap public transport because the Council is on the verge of bankruptcy like most Councils in this Country. It isn't because young people aren't sharing their ideas. They have loads of great ones but there simply isn't the money to fund anything right now.

I'm going to guess you're in the North and enjoying an awful lot of leveling up money?

Remember, a significant portion of your council tax is allocated to public sector pensions (average 23.5% I think) meaning you obviously will not see any of that in improved services….

Stating the bleeding obvious.

Think it was said earlier but Labour have always increased Taxes! It’s what they do! I’m old enough to remember it happening in the past 🤨 and, of course, the younger Labour voters might not be aware of this

Well great for you but in my local area the Labour government has intervened and shelved plans to widen the road system which also included plans to allow a large nearby village to access a newly built train station by foot or cycle - by putting a footbridge over the widened road. This means that the only way for people in that village to access the station now is to drive and pay £11.50 per day to park. So much for their support for green initiatives…

But isn’t council tax for local government to manage? Ours is Reform, and they will be raising the council tax