To be scared about how we will cope with more tax rises - council tax

[partytimed]

i really loathe this government. Usually with politics I feel like whoever is in charge I don’t notice much of a direct impact on my day to day life. Yes I’m aware of slow erosions in public services and I was no fan at all of the tories, I voted for this government im ashamed to say, and they lied and lied about their plans. I am so much worse off and if they double council tax bands virtually all of our disposable income is going to be gone. It feels like theft. I don’t trust them to spend the money I make properly it all feels corrupt and it’s just so depressing and upsetting.

Even Nigel has just acknowledged that he cannot promise tax cuts.

I already pay £380 a month for having my bins emptied. For this to double to £760 a month is incomprehensible.

My hatred for this spiteful government knows no bounds.

You think your council tax just pays for bin collection? Time to get educated my friend. Every year you get a break down of the spending in your council tax letter, maybe read it?

Lol Course you have!

You either need these people or you don't, you have no idea what the budget will be yet.

But what this means for me is that my local gym membership will be cancelled. I will no longer eat at the local restaurants. I will no longer do ‘non essential’ local shopping - as I will have to use this money to pay for my bins to be emptied. So many local businesses impacted as people just won’t have the discretionary spend anymore.

@Caps44you're looking forward to significant public sector cuts then?

Seen the state of schools recently?

Two thirds of the spending will probably be on adult social care and children services as this is the average. If you don't use either or privately fund this provision then the chances are that you are getting very poor value for money in terms of money paid and services received.

Come on….it’s a bloody joke. Of course I read my council tax statement. I am educated thank you.

Thank you, exactly. I don’t benefit from barely anything that my tax pays for. But at least I do (sometimes) get my bins emptied

So how would you fund social services, adult care, childrens services, road mtce etc?

Local income tax? or just a "Pay as Go" system?

@Marshmallow4545its not about whether you personally use the service. That's an extremely immature PoV.

Do you benefit from those services in a round about way? Yes. Might you need to use those services if your personal situation changed? Yes. Do you think that every human in our country has a right to a basic quality of life, including education and healthcare. For me. Yes.

Concerning if you don't really. Because that means you believe people should suffer for their poverty.

Yeah sure you have! What bollocks

I don't know why people can't get their heads around this. Councils are paying £100k for individual children's school placements and a nursing home place can cost a similar amount depending on needs. Obviously only those without any assets would be eligible for Council funding for the latter so the chances are that those being asked to pay double Council tax will be least likely to qualify for council funded care in their old age.

It therefore really is true that Council Tax has become a form of enforced charity that wealthier households are being forced to pay as they will see very very little in return.

Actually a 'pay as you go' system would be much fairer. People could not complain if they are only paying based on their individual usage.

..and you can see no issues with this approach!

No. Are you not prepared to pay for your usage? If you don't pay you don't receive the service.

The only people complaining would be someone who expects something for nothing.

The pay as you go system would only work if everyone had the same starting points in life. A lot of wealth was accumulated in the backs of lower income individuals. Make everything equal and let’s see how long the rich stay rich.

First, you choose to live alongside other people. Practically, there has to be some collective spending or you will be living among the detritus of dead and ailing people. You will be walking and driving on dark, unmaintained streets. You would have to bury your rubbish in the garden and do your own crime prevention. Loads of other stuff.

Secondly, I'm guessing you have some kind of insurance. Life insurance, property, car etc. Do you expect to die before your dependents can earn, get burgled, crash? No. But you're covered if you do. Can't you just think of it as an insurance policy on getting old, sick, making a bad investment, your house falling down or whatever?

This is if the idea of spending collectively rather than just on yourself makes you come out in hives. Obviously not everyone does think like that. Some people can see that in a civilised society it is better for all of us if none of us go uneducated/hungry/homeless etc without having to tell a story about how it benefits you personally.

I'm sorry but I find your view point incredibly immature. Of course it's easy to be generous and kind with other people's money but we need to have sensible and mature discussions about what kind of state provision is and isn't affordable. You're right, none of us are immune from potentially requiring it but this doesn't mean that we can't acknowledge the huge elephants in the room regarding the sustainability of local public finances.

The average household spends £1.7k on Council Tax a year. You would need 59 households to devote their entire Council Tax to fund one child's school placement. This would leave no money left for anything else. No refuse collectors, no police, no fire service no road maintenance... It is simply unsustainable and will inevitably lead to resentment and anger because ultimately people are paying enough for basic services that would benefit everyone but the money is being funnelled to specific groups and services and will never be enough.

We need to find another way urgently. It probably won't be as good for specific groups and compromises will need to be made but the public need to buy into it and feel that they are getting a fair deal otherwise we will be in a very difficult place indeed

So how would you fund road mtce?

How would my neighbour get her 4x a day care visits?

A 'pay as you go' system could niogbe set up so that only the very wealthy could afford it as it wouldn't receive the revenue. It would be based on average earnings and average usage. If you wanted additional services you woukd obviously pay more and if you used minimal services you pay less. It is the individual's choice and not compulsory.

They would pay more.

Being able to live in a better area, send your kids to better schools and have more savings/pension is hardly the same standard of living.
I don't believe for one minute people in higher council tax bands will suddenly stop spending.
It's not a race to the bottom, just an acceptance that we will all be squeezed a little more for a while.
I do have a job that can be stressful, drive to work, and work shifts.

@ChatBotBelly 80% of the 1000 members of the Sunday Times Rich List are self made.

Of course I understand and support collective spending. I also support the welfare state as a safety net. Nobody is suggesting you dismantle the welfare state or eradicate all spending on Adult care or Children's services. You also though can't stick your head in the sand and pretend these enormous spiralling costs aren't a problem and don't need to be addressed.

Using your insurance analogy. What do you think the rich are insuring against by paying double Council Tax? I suspect most would take their chances and not pay the insurance premium if it were so high and the chance of them actually being eligible for a place at a state funded care home is tiny.

I'm not a monster. Very few people are. Most are happy to contribute to support the vulnerable in our society. The problem comes when people feel they haven't got more to contribute and the burden becomes too large to carry without seriously damaging the economy and people's finances. Do you expect people to happily give up their homes because they can't miraculously find £4k extra each year to fund a Council that does very little for them?