Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

Should we bring back the workhouses and asylums instead?

Depends on your morals. I don't believe the world, society or the country owes you anything. We should as a society look aftee our most vulnerable but what our most vulnerable is is open to debate.

People should contribute if they can, why shouldn't they? Why are people victims to their own situations?

Saying the word disabled doesn’t give an automatic free ride. Having a disability doesn’t automatically entitle someone to DLA/PIP or UC’s LCWRA/LCW element. Not all disabled people are eligible.

PIP is not an out-of-work benefit! You can be eligible for PIP and work full time. I know several people who get PIP and they all work full time.

I never said it was an out of work benefit?

Yes we know.

Which is what i'm arguing. No doubt there would be some diabetics who claim they can't work due to the five injections a day and should recieve the same support as your other son. Would you say they are equally as disabled?

Five injections isnt to be sniffed at but it's also a small price to pay to work, socialise, be seen etc

Maybe in some form. If people are capable of work but don't why shouldn't the rest of society keep the cost of keeping them alive, sheltered and fed toa minimum?

They could say that all they want though but they definitely wouldn't be receiving PIP no matter how much they may think they should.

Would you be happy for your disabled child to end up in an asylum?

The overwhelming majority of diabetics aren’t eligible for PIP (which isn’t about whether someone can work or not) or UC’s LCWRA (which is ability capability to work). They wouldn’t get either just because of 5 injections.

They might say that but there will always be people who swing the lead it doesn't mean they will be successful with a PIP claim though.

Anyone who has been through the tribunal process knows that the reports and witnesses you provide play a huge part. Getting a more experienced and educated professional isn't hard agianst the LA provided if you have the funds.

I see you have resorted to attacking me rather than my arguments. Myself, my husband and my family have made provision for my ds when we pass and the same will stand if his situation changes. I recognise this and that many cannot do this.

You do realise you don’t just go into an assessor's office and say “I’m disabled… gimme… gimme…”. Any claim is based on need. So you can very well have three people with the same condition where one gets nothing, one gets something and one gets the higher full amount (probably after going to tribunal, but that’s another story).

If DD gets diagnosed with ASD she won’t get a penny because her needs are completely different to @x2boys ‘s son. Same with any other disability or illness.

Some people with cancer keep working throughout the whole thing. Does that mean all people with cancer can ? Does it mean that no one with cancer should claim PIP or require help ? Or does it depend on need?

I trust you are aware that there are people claiming PIP who can and do work.... because they get PIP? And if you took it away, they would lose their ability to work?

But I'm not saying that ,I'm pointing out they both have disabilities but my oldest son is very independent and very different to his brother who will never be independent
In terms of law diabetes is recognised as a disability because paticularly insulin dependent diabetic, s might need reasonable adjustment ,s to be be able to work which I think is fair enough ,if someone has a hypo for example they need to correct it.

I have been through the tribunal process and I have helped thousands of others too. Witnesses aren’t essential. I haven’t taken a witness to a hearing in all the hearings for my DC. There are ways of getting reports, including independent reports, without the family funding independent reports e.g. legal aid, charity funding, asking SENDIST to direct the LA to seek advice and information.

I haven’t attacked you. I was commenting on your point and having the threshold in relation to your DS.

No but hopefully we (as a family) have made provision to avoid that.

There are others who would currently claim but if this type of situation came to pass would suddenly be able to work or function of their own accord to not face the fate of an asylum.

Ah there it is. I mean, if you’re happy for your son to end up in one , suit yourself. I’m sure you’ll cancel all the provisions you made for him… right?

I’m not. Not for my kid , or anyone else’s kid(regardless of age).

Or we could... I don't know, put in the effort to make work more accessible so that more people with disabilities can access and retain work in some form, topped up if needed so that they can live independently.

But also some can present the same but face it differently. Some will also be impacted to a lesser amount make it out to be much worse because they cba.

and if a family doesn't have the funds for that? Their child will be stuck in an asylum.

Lovely.

As long as your child will be fine though.

My auntie claimed attendants allowance for the first time last year. She didn’t know she could claim it before. She is housebound, can’t leave her chair without a carer, can’t use the toilet without a carer. She has them in 4x day. They do everything, personal care, tablets, meals, toilet etc. but she only gets the basic amount as she doesn’t have a carer overnight. They put her to bed in an incontenance pad and she can’t use the toilet until a carer comes in the morning. She owns her own home so the next stage is a home.

I'm not saying their not disabled but it is completely different. Having capacity and ability with impedement that can be overcome is different to those who will ne er. The thread is about disability benefits and i do believe what is classed as a disability or a disability requiring legal protection needs to change.

I believe somebody with profound/ severe autism needs more protection and support than somebody with diabetes.

That's not what i wrote.