Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

The £5k car they can't afford because their only income is benefits

I somehow doubt it your anxiety was so bad to claim enhanced mobility, you'd be fit enough to drive

It goes off need not diagnosis.

Oh i misunderstood the question. It’s the percentage in each age bracket(out of all claimants , rather than the whole population ) claiming PIP.

Also found this , if relevant at all.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pip_data_ages_of_claimants/response/3011699/attach/html/3/Response%20FOI2025%2036483.pdf.html

They would be unlikely to meet the criteria for PIP just on their say so.

My son has a chromosome deletion thought to be the underlying reason for his autism and learning disabilities, at 15 he's completely non verbal as in hasent ever said a word ,he's cognitively around 2 or 3 he's goes to a special school for children with severe and profound learning disabilities, he's working at pre school level in year 11,but yeah I have completely made it up and its just my bad parenting 🙄

I don’t believe people are getting motability for that though. In fact mobility is extremely difficult to get and you have to meet so much criteria. anxiety wouldn’t do that? I have been through the DLA process and I’ve see what criteria has to be met.

That was meant to quote @GagMeWithASpoon.

The criteria for pip is slightly different. You either have to be unable to walk 20m, be unable to plan and follow a familiar journey or a mix of walking difficulties and difficulties with planning and following a journey

Do your conditions prevent you caring for yourself, travelling independently etc ,becsuse if they do and you have professional proof of this then put in a claim.

Yes it can be easier to get HRM under PIP then DLA for some people with some conditions, I know several young adults qualify for HRM when they transitioned to PIP and they didn't meet the criteria under DLA.

Just wanted to say those are not my views, hence the inverted commas , but a common rhetoric on here and in society in general.

If you don’t see it , it doesn’t exist. If you can see it, then it’s bad /lazy parenting and those kids shouldn’t be out in public anyway.

Sorry I misinterpreted it ,yes I agree and it's frustrating.

I think people don’t realise our kids (severely autistic) exist because they don’t see them or notice them. To be fair we don’t go to public places often as it’s hard work. People are blind to other peoples struggles unless they live if. Severe autism isn’t offered covered in the media and in tv, they often show high functioning autistics or just kids with behaviour issues. Having a child who needs 24/7 supervision and who will need care for the rest of their lives just doesn’t register with some people. Only my close friends and a few family members understand. I still have people ask me when dd will learn to drive, work etc…., she’s severely autistic and can’t leave the house alone let alone do these things.

I hate the stigma that comes from my DC being on PIP and me being unable to work full time (so claiming benefits), my life is exhausting, my daughters quality of life is poor, yet we are made to feel bad for needing any kind of financial help. I would love for my 19 year old to be out with friends, learning to drive and looking to move out and I would love to be able to improve my financial situation by working in a career I trained for.

It does sometimes, but not all the time. I did look at a friends forms because she said I should consider applying, but honestly it was all very specific. If somebody wasn’t at home with me to wake me up, I sometimes wouldn’t eat. But I can use a knife and fork and don’t need special adaptations to eat, just someone to wake me up and cook for me on a bad day. But not every day.
Again, I can travel independently on a good day.

This is really nice in theory, but in practice it just won’t happen.

Faced with 10 applicants for a job, 9 able bodied/not disabled and one disabled, 99% of employers will not even give the disabled person a second glance.

As a disabled person, I can’t even say that I blame them. I can’t reliably get up in the morning; some days it’s just too painful. Who wants an employee that can’t be guaranteed to even turn up? “Work from home” you say? My background is hospitality management - how do I run a restaurant from my bed? Lots of venues have multiple steps, or restaurants on a different floor from the kitchen? How will I manage that in my wheelchair? What about when I’ve got a huge conference booked but I’ve also got a crippling migraine to the extent half my body isn’t working and I’m slurring my words? Do you still want to give me a job instead of those nine equally qualified and experienced people?

I worked hard for over 30 years to build my career and I was bloody good at it. I became disabled through no fault of my own and my disability “benefits” are probably a quarter of my earning potential. I’d much rather be working than supposedly living the high life on PIP.

What really gets me the most about all these conversations is that people refuse to listen to actual disabled people and parents of disabled children, preferring to form their opinions from the right wing press and the bollocks people spout on social media. Multiple posters have stated, truthfully, what life is like on DLA/PIP, yet we must all be lying and the Daily Mail (which everyone claims not to read) is telling the absolute truth 🙄.

@FlatWhiteExtraHot i am thinking more out of the box than that. So I think covid helped loads with showing that lots of jobs can be done to a very good standard via remote working and they are now advertised as that. This is a brilliant step in the right direction. Now we need businesses to realise that part time workers are at least as valuable, if not more valuable than full time people.
So as an example, research scientists are almost always advertised as full time, where as actually, part time scientists would spread the funding out for longer, and allow a lot more of the practical work to be done by lab technicians or Lab assistants which would save loads of money. Also, most lab work can be done at any time of day or night, so flexible hours are a really obvious thing to offer as standard for this role but they just aren't.
There is also lots of evidence showing that a 4 day working week, costs employers less but actually has no loss to productivity. There is an ongoing two year trial at a council where they have implemented it and with one of two small exceptions or has caused no issues and has saved the council a lot of money.

Obviously hotel management is virtually impossible to do remotely and I think if you have a very unpredictable and variable condition then working will be really difficult. However, I could imagine a situation where it would be good for a business to employ an experienced hotel manager part time to either be desk based or work for home part time, and then a young inexperienced hotel manager, who could do the on the ground physical stuff whilst being trained by the senior member of staff? It could cost the business similar to employing one full time experienced staff member?
I am just speculating and don't know the ins and outs of hotels stuff but It sounds like you are someone who knows their stuff and it would be a waste for all your skills to just sit on a shelf somewhere forever.

What really gets me the most about all these conversations is that people refuse to listen to actual disabled people and parents of disabled children, preferring to form their opinions from the right wing press and the bollocks people spout on social media. Multiple posters have stated, truthfully, what life is like on DLA/PIP, yet we must all be lying and the Daily Mail (which everyone claims not to read) is telling the absolute truth 🙄.

This is precisely why I don't bother to outline my difficulties as a disabled person here. I have no desire to have my life minimised by randoms, who really don't care, but just want to stick the boot in.

I know three people in their twenties plus one of their partners, all on some kind of disability benefit. Apart from a (relatively mild) mobility issue, the reason for all not working is their mental health. I'm a lefty too but it is frustrating that they don't work (have never worked, and are not looking) because they really could, albeit with adjustments or support. The couple who have never worked are having their third child. I do believe that the state absolutely must support those who need it but it is testing to see examples of the benefits system allowing some people to opt out of a working life. I don't want to bash the people, I'd prefer there was a system in place that supported people to improve their mental health and support them then to get to work. These schemes could cost billions though so we continue to just pay the benefit. We just can't afford to keep doing this.

Yeah they don't care they just.ignore posts or bleat on about "genuine people " like they know something about "genuine disabled " people.

The issue though is that adjustments/support can be difficult to get because people want to hire those who can do the job without needing adjustments/support.

I'm not disabled but my child is and my work dropped me as soon as it became apparent that I would need adjustments/support if I was to continue working. They weren't interested.

Again it goes off need not diagnosis and " mental health" covers a broad range of conditions.

I do wonder if disability benefits should be means tested. I get the argument that being disabled has hidden costs so DLA is intended to level the playing field. But the playing field isn't level to start with - some people earn minimum wage and some people are independently wealthy. Should people's taxes fund DLA for people who are financially well off. Like all the mill workers having to pay for the factory owners bathchair, to use a Victorian analogy. Surely the wealthy are able and should be expected to absorb any additonal costs.

The additional cost of disability is real.

My partner and I both still manage to work. We have good salaries. It is still a struggle to financially meet our son’s needs.

I say this with the least smugness in the world. Many parents like us don’t work, and aren’t able to because they’re not as fortunate in terms of employer flexibility or having after school child care, etc. I genuinely don’t know how they make ends meet.

We regularly spend over a thousand pounds a month specifically on our son’s dietary needs, accessible hobbies, replacing things he’s broken or otherwise damaged. He’s on his 5th iPad this year. Bed sheets - I buy at least 2 every week, because he ruins them beyond recovery. Indestructable water bottles that he manages to destruct. Replacement ear defenders. Replacement clothes because he’s ripped all of his. SEN specific leisure activities that the price is elevated for because of staff needs etc. The list goes on. And on.

We qualify for nothing, outside of his DLA. Zero. And that DLA doesn’t come close to scratching the surface.

You could means test it. But I wouldn’t bank on what you find in people’s incomings being reflective of whether they can feed themselves at the end of the month, after they’ve spent everything they have on those additional costs.

Then you risk financial abuse if it goes off their partners earnings. The average disability cost is around £1000 per month which is more than the higher rates of pip care and mobility

You're also going to have people who are pennies over the means tested limit but their disability costs are higher meaning they'd be worse off

Yes this, people more than likely but not just disabled women can be financially abused by their partners, taking money from them leaves them extremely vulnerable,