If you are middle class do you feel your lifestyle is eroding?

[ceramicwitch]

Now I know that as long as we can afford to heat your home, pay your mortgage / rent and afford to feed yourself and your family you can't complain too much. However I am interested if you feel you used to have a a middle class lifestyle, able to afford nicer bits or activities if you feel that is being eroded?

I think I am feeling it, we used to be quite free with putting nice things in the basket at waitrose (not where we go all the time but where we get treats and more premium things) and not we are holding back quite a bit more. We usually go to the Theatre a few times a year and the ballet, especially at Christmas but this year we are giving it a miss due to ever increasing costs. We've stopped going to cafes if not on holiday.

I have good friends who live in quite an expensive part of town, He is a Doctor and they seemed to be quite oblivious to cost of living the past few years but the other day I was talking to him and he was saying how he doesn't much enjoy eating out these days as the cost of it sticks in his throat, even cheap and cheerful is quite pricy now.

Anyone else feeling that quality of life even for the supposedly well insulated middle classes is in decline?

No problem for me. However, despite being utterly useless, I don't think even a Labour government will be looking to Mumsnet for guidance on policy.😂

I remember as a child we never ate out.Apart from a fish and chip supper sometimes or a tea and cake

When was this? I ate out as a dc & my parents often had fish & chips takeaway weekly.

Well, think about it; the wealthy are leaving/have left the country because it is far too expensive to operate. Once the wealthy have gone, the next portion of society to tax is the middle class. Once the middle class are crushed, the next portion will be the poor, working poor (living paycheque to paycheque) and those in relative poverty. The question is how far will Labour go before they'll go begging to the IMF (who can't help us anyway because we have way too much debt)? Defaulting will be catastrophic, the debt we have could well cause a run on the GB Peso and crash Sterling. Or, spell the end of money as we know it and move entirely to digital currency. All money is digital anyway, now just need to centralise it. The economy is on it's knees, once it's flat-lined and thoroughly driven into the ground, then CBDCs come in.

Well, think about it; the wealthy are leaving/have left the country because it is far too expensive to operate

Is this true?

We still have 156 billionaires, I would count them as wealthy.

You'd be surprised actually, researchers tend to look at a whole range of sources including places like MN

But the government will be coming for your money. Even if Reform get in, it’ll become very apparent that it’s not the refugees that are the problem, although they are a convenient distraction - it’s the increasingly small proportion of people who are working and that’s only going to going to get worse.

Yes.
Private school is out of the question.
Annual holidays abroad a pipe dream.
Florida or skiing would need a lottery win.
No overpaying the mortgage/finishing it early.
Car won’t be replaced for several years.
Not even going to think about a new phone.
Subscriptions feel like a rip off.
Limiting advent calendars.
Christmas will be lower key this year - few new decs. Kids more modest presents. No extravagant food.
Even Halloween decor hasn’t been done as much.
Fewer meals out (only spoons)
Fewer day trips (only special offers)
Home repairs going undone.
More days spent in.

But more than that a sense of hopelessness for the DCs. What future do they have?

😁😁

Even if Reform get in, it’ll become very apparent that it’s not the refugees that are the problem, although they are a convenient distraction

It's insane that people are buying their low tax, low immigration & great public services utopia. Do people actually believe it or know it's bullshit but I'll vote for them anyway?

That could be because there are many older pensioners on modest incomes who would downsize and fund themselves with their capital (no need for means tested benefits) if they could find suitable properties.

It is mainly the well off, who can afford to buy retirement housing in the private market, (not only expensive, the service charges can be astronomical), and those in rented accommodation who are eligible for socially rented retirement housing who have the capacity to move. Owner occupiers, on low incomes in moderately priced homes rarely have either option.

A friend just bought a small flat in a retirement complex. It cost as much as our house would sell for, and then we’d have to find solicitors’ fees, stamp duty, and monthly service charges. Impossible for us and many older pensioners like us. The problem will only get worse as more of us are living longer.

or you know, they could look at the mis-management of their money I.e. our taxes… I think there’s a lot of money in the pot that could be spent very differently and much more efficiently!

Target men who avoid CMS and tax for a start.

I read a comment online recently where someone said being middle class now just means being able to pay your bills and I think that's true

People on low incomes will always be hit hardest when the the economy is in a rough place, but the middle classes feeling the squeeze and having less disposable income is bad news for the economy and those most reliant on it. It's less money cycling around to be paid in tax, less donations to charities and good causes such as food banks, more businesses closing, often hitting flexible, localised jobs. It makes it harder for the economic cycle to balance itself and that affects all (but the very rich).

Since 2022 in particular, I've noticed those few £, here and ££ there stacking up. It also co-incides badly with children hitting the teen years and paying for adult-sizes, meals, portions and often admission fees. Where there are children's discounts, they're often not substantially less than adult rates these days. Long gone are the days of entertaining them cheaply with a scooter ride around the park.

We eat out a lot less than a few years ago as the value at "mid-range chain" restaurants/pubs is declining, and often menus have undergone "shrinkflation" as well as price increases. If I'm walking away from a restaurant having paid £20 per head for a main course and soft drink, I don't want to hear teenagers moaning that they're hungry for at least 2 hours afterwards.
Even they've agreed that McDonalds isn't worth it any more because that's now getting to £10 per head without filling them adequately.

Yes it’s all fine, but going back 10-15 years we would regularly be updating some aspect of the house. Now we just don’t have spare cash for that if we want to carry on having holidays etc

Things we no longer afford on a household income of £160
Botox
Hairdressers
Cleaner
Painters / decorators / odd jobs -
Gardener
Eating out

Due to use tightening our belts several other people's semi and regular income has reduced. I imagine, some, will be topped up by benefits which we pay for through extortionate tax. So we still pay but we don't get the service.

What's wrong with the government 'coming for my money'?

I see lots of housing schemes on RightMove where the property is 50% of full market price for 60+

Honestly, we earn fucking great money and have investments etc. but all I see is my living standards erode with my taxes being increased. If Reeves increases income tax, depending how high, we will seriously consider leaving. I can have a better quality of life in the Baltics/Poland than here with a lot less money.

Absolutely agree OP. The house I grew up in could be afforded by 1 adult working an average job (think nurse or teacher), SAHM and 2 children. Very nice lifestyle. Same house is now £400,000.

Reeves needs to stop hammering the very people that are keeping the country going - their tax is funding those on hand-outs and big business that don't pay their staff enough so have to be propped up by the tax payer.

The explosion of cheap money/cheap food is over. Eating out regularly wasn’t common in 70s and 80s. It was mid-90s onwards that gave the idea of ‘mini-breaks’ and mid-range have a meal out when out shopping kind of thinking. We are catching up with the real cost of 2008 crash now as well as paying back government support during the pandemic, plus generations with much larger student debt are coming through into what was the high spending middle years of midlife. Yes, it was fun while it lasted but I don’t think it will come back and all those cafes/mid priced restaurants will disappear again.

Agree on Reeves / Starmer and co going for people with taxes, they are hammering businesses too.

What happened to this?

Labour's manifesto is, "fully funded and fully costed - no ifs, no ands, no buts… no additional tax rises."

"I have been very clear that every policy we announce, and every line in our manifesto, will be fully costed and fully funded."

“Nothing in our plans requires any additional tax to be increased.”

“We’ve got the Office for Budget Responsibility now… You don’t need to win an election to find out [about the public finances].”

“I don’t believe that fiddling around with tax rates is the best way to grow the economy.”

It’s only when you can’t afford to pay your rent/mortgage, council tax and utility bills that you need to worry. I suspect most middle class people are quite a way from this, so the rest doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme.

i feel so sorry for the local cafes, but I definitely now spend less in them than I used to. But in terms of the things people are sadly avoiding as astronomical I would suggest things like

1. Free drink once a week if you're with Octopus Energy at Caffe Nero - I send the code for this to DD2 and she gets a once a week 'treat' at school (she's on a bursary at a boarding school and does notice the income discrepancy so it's nice when she can have something for free).
2. First Table for eating out - we are going tonight before the theatre for ramen at a nice place - half price because we've booked the early slot with them. Makes it decent value.
3. Central Tickets/Show Film First for cheap theatre deals - we're also off to the National Theatre tonight for £6.50 a ticket - the seat filler deals on these sites are brilliant. Teens can go to the National for a fiver/tenner anyway depending on age, so I often send ours on their own. English National Opera has similar, also the ballet. It usually works out cheaper than the cinema. Not all London, either - often concerts etc round the country on these apps
4. PressReader with your library card if you're missing magazines - most are free to read on here.

These are all ways we're keeping up the things we like to do in the current COL crisis and spending less.

I disagree. I am in a middle class job with a husband who has a middle class job. We were priced out of London many years ago. The standard of living for people of all ages has gone down for many, less free playgroups, poorer schools, increased drugs, less free or low cost groups for teenagers, high cost university fees and living costs, less ability to own a home. High mortgage costs, high living costs, high childcare costs, two people having to work, later pension age, high care costs, poorer health service.