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Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses

993 replies

DuncinToffee · 14/10/2025 20:26

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics, cats, dogs and much more

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5418471-thread-34-starmer-conference-swanwiches-and-a-deputy-leader-contest?page=40

OP posts:
Thread gallery
140
SerendipityJane · 17/10/2025 09:31

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 09:12

Lib Dems had a good night last night. Out of 7 by election results so far they made 4 gains from a localist, Labour, Green and Tory.

One Tory gain from Labour. One Reform gain from LibDems. One Indy gain from SNP.

Skim reading suggests - as posited - that disaffected Labour are tending to LibDems, not Reform.

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 09:51

The last two. Tory gain from Labour, Lib Dem gain from Tories. I know these are just local council by-elections, but am heartened that Reform only gained one out of ten.

Caerphilly next week! A Caerphilly friend (a lifelong Tory so no skin in the game) reckons that the latest poll doesn't reflect the reality, especially given its size. The Plaid Cymru candidate is already well established politically at a local level. Fingers 🤞 that PC win.

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 10:31

The Labour to Lib Dems votes aren't really that surprising, a lot of floating voters went for GTTO.

The Tory to Reform/Lib Dems is interesting, under 50s and graduates are leaning LD, over 50s, non graduates go R

OP posts:
persephonia · 17/10/2025 11:08

SerendipityJane · 17/10/2025 09:25

Taken to the logical extreme, self sufficiency is 0% efficient. You cannot have it both ways.

Communities, and then cities and then empires grow when you divide and conquer - which could have been the strapline for Adam Smith.

they made everything they needed including their shelter from scratch

That is a brave statement when I explicitly asked "and the tools to do it ?". Did they make the screws ? The nails ? The pipes ? The bricks ? If not they were still just making an extreme IKEA kit and only cosplaying being self sufficient.

Even the earliest colonists to America were not self sufficient - they had to take things they had not made (tools etc) and even then would never have survived had they not traded with the indigenous people.

And there we come back to where were are today. We trade to buy food. and what we need so we can make what we want.

When I saw David Cameron back in 2009, it was almost his catch phrase - he must said "we are a trading nation" every other sentence. To a total tumbleweed from an audience that had been primed to ask about immigration.

The very bottom line is I don't feel like paying for other people to fail to achieve food self sufficiency in the same way I don't want to pay for flaky energy like windmills or non starters like reviving the high street.

I think they did literally make bricks from scratch as well as cut down/forage wood. It was another country anyway, so space was less of an issue but even there there is no way everyone could it. And, as you say, the small but very essential things like screwdriver parts and nails they needed from elsewhere. And those small things need a massive system behind them.

Humans ability to specialise and work together is our single biggest ability. I do think there's a balance to be found with efficiency. The most efficient way to live could be everyone in tiny boxes never meeting other people in person (space for meeting people is a waste) and just communicating online. All goods could be delivered via massive Amazon warehouse
Turn allmof South Spain into a big greenhouse for growing food and you can convert the rest of Europe into datacenters, tiny box houses and warehouses.
Pure efficiency feels quite dystopian. I like having countryside, i think we benefit from having farms and farmers and I think the loss of pubs, youth centres, and yes high streets is a tragedy. I think people would be less crazy if we had more and more pleasant third spaces. And high streets/their decline is a visible reminder to people of loss of "community". Which then gets transmuted into blaming immigration etc. So I don't think reviving the high street or alternatively trying to find a decent replacement for the high street is a bad idea.

Evenstar · 17/10/2025 12:35

Private Eye’s predictions for the post Budget headlines

Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses
Notonthestairs · 17/10/2025 12:39

Evenstar · 17/10/2025 12:35

Private Eye’s predictions for the post Budget headlines

Very funny.

But it wouldn't be a Telegraph headline if it didnt involve the word Doom/Doomed.

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 12:53

Totally off-topic, but when I read this I thought of certain types of mumsnetters:

"When passengers tried to intervene, she shouted at them: ‘I will be going back to my big house and you will be going back to your council houses.’" 🤣

She drank 15 cans of wine!

https://metro.co.uk/2025/10/16/woman-downed-15-cans-wine-flight-saying-go-back-council-houses-24448534/

Eta: her poor husband. I hope he leaves her.

AbsentosaurusRex · 17/10/2025 13:03

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 12:53

Totally off-topic, but when I read this I thought of certain types of mumsnetters:

"When passengers tried to intervene, she shouted at them: ‘I will be going back to my big house and you will be going back to your council houses.’" 🤣

She drank 15 cans of wine!

https://metro.co.uk/2025/10/16/woman-downed-15-cans-wine-flight-saying-go-back-council-houses-24448534/

Eta: her poor husband. I hope he leaves her.

Edited

Sounds like she was flying in cattle class. Her ‘big house’ is probably a 3 bed semi detached with an over garage extension, rather than a hacienda. Expect that’s why she was an angry drunkard. I picture her having a black and white cat and snappy chihuahua, with bottles of cider in her double fridge. Though I don’t know that for sure.

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 13:06

AbsentosaurusRex · 17/10/2025 13:03

Sounds like she was flying in cattle class. Her ‘big house’ is probably a 3 bed semi detached with an over garage extension, rather than a hacienda. Expect that’s why she was an angry drunkard. I picture her having a black and white cat and snappy chihuahua, with bottles of cider in her double fridge. Though I don’t know that for sure.

😁

She probably starts MN threads about people in council houses having big tellies, 12 children and "free" cars. Or about PIP recipients climbing mount Everest.

I resent the smear about black and white cats, though. They are the best!

bombastix · 17/10/2025 13:14

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 13:06

😁

She probably starts MN threads about people in council houses having big tellies, 12 children and "free" cars. Or about PIP recipients climbing mount Everest.

I resent the smear about black and white cats, though. They are the best!

I noted “wine in a can”.

Marcel has valuable guidance on this. Just don’t, basically.

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 13:14

Guess the pints of Champagne weren't available.

Racially aggravated harassment, lovely.

OP posts:
PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 13:19

Yeah, that part isn't funny.

I have never understood why booze is served on planes. It is such a bad combination.

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 13:20

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/16/farage-urged-to-explain-anti-abortion-links-to-meeting-with-trump-officials

Lib Dems are asking Farage why a US anti-abortion advocacy group helped arrange a meeting in London with Trump administration officials.

OP posts:
bombastix · 17/10/2025 13:21

As someone who does a lot of international travel, I like booze on planes. But not wine in a can, or violence or racial harassment.

persephonia · 17/10/2025 13:22

AbsentosaurusRex · 17/10/2025 13:03

Sounds like she was flying in cattle class. Her ‘big house’ is probably a 3 bed semi detached with an over garage extension, rather than a hacienda. Expect that’s why she was an angry drunkard. I picture her having a black and white cat and snappy chihuahua, with bottles of cider in her double fridge. Though I don’t know that for sure.

I think some people have very rich inner lives where they are wealthier than they are. And that drives a lot of resentment at having to subsidise others through their taxes or having to pay inheritance tax etc. It's the only explanation for some voting patterns.
Or possibly I'm projecting abmy own maladaptive day dreami

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 13:22

bombastix · 17/10/2025 13:14

I noted “wine in a can”.

Marcel has valuable guidance on this. Just don’t, basically.

That is brilliant, thank you!

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 13:29

BREAKING:

King Charles and Pope Leo will pray together in the Sistine Chapel next week

First time a British monarch and pontiff have done so publicly since Reformation

King also to be given own special chair bearing his coat of arms in a papal basilica

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 17/10/2025 13:31

Notonthestairs · 17/10/2025 12:39

Very funny.

But it wouldn't be a Telegraph headline if it didnt involve the word Doom/Doomed.

As Zack Polanski pointed out, the Telegraph was in thrall to the Liz Truss budget.

If pointing out a penny on tax is due to Brexit, then you may as well be honest and say the other is to continue paying (which we will for years) Truss economic event that she dared not put to a vote.

AbsentosaurusRex · 17/10/2025 13:33

I don’t drink at all these days. Waste of money (to me), and I like to look after my cash rather than spaff it up the wall. I’ve always thought alcohol should be banned on any public transport. Never mind a tube in the sky where you can’t escape the drunken fools. Still we often travel business if long haul, not as much misbehaviour there..

pointythings · 17/10/2025 13:44

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 13:06

😁

She probably starts MN threads about people in council houses having big tellies, 12 children and "free" cars. Or about PIP recipients climbing mount Everest.

I resent the smear about black and white cats, though. They are the best!

All cats are the best. But as the servant of one black, one ginger, two ginger and whites and a tabby I can't really say anything else...

placemats · 17/10/2025 13:47

After 15 cans of wine on a long haul flight one has to wonder what she was drinking beforehand.

Wondering when two tier Kier will kick in with this particular case. I won't be holding my breath. Radio 3 silence.

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 13:53

I hope nobody cries two tier about these scumbags

https://news.sky.com/story/three-neo-nazis-who-plotted-terrorist-attacks-on-mosques-and-synagogues-jailed-13451058

Three UK neo-Nazis jailed for between eight and 11 years over terror plots

Group of ‘like-minded extremists’ styled themselves after the SS and amassed arsenal of more than 200 weapons

OP posts:
bombastix · 17/10/2025 14:08

Those sentences seem on the low side to me! What a terrible cache of things to inflict injury.

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 14:09

DuncinToffee · 17/10/2025 13:53

I hope nobody cries two tier about these scumbags

https://news.sky.com/story/three-neo-nazis-who-plotted-terrorist-attacks-on-mosques-and-synagogues-jailed-13451058

Three UK neo-Nazis jailed for between eight and 11 years over terror plots

Group of ‘like-minded extremists’ styled themselves after the SS and amassed arsenal of more than 200 weapons

Brogan Stewart's bedroom is deeply odd. Nazi flags and childhood wallpaper. I guess he still lived at home.

PickAChew · 17/10/2025 14:22

PandoraSocks · 17/10/2025 14:09

Brogan Stewart's bedroom is deeply odd. Nazi flags and childhood wallpaper. I guess he still lived at home.

If only he could put the same dedication into cleaning up after himself.