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Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses

993 replies

DuncinToffee · 14/10/2025 20:26

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics, cats, dogs and much more

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5418471-thread-34-starmer-conference-swanwiches-and-a-deputy-leader-contest?page=40

OP posts:
Thread gallery
140
PickAChew · 15/10/2025 17:56

Piggywaspushed · 15/10/2025 16:24

Joining thread late just to read along. No tax.

Sorry, been a bit preoccupied of late as my mum died last week. You may recall she was in the US so it's been a very unsettling and odd experience.

I'm going to lose it and tell someone to fuck off. Nearly did it at work today.

I'm so sorry. A good swear can be cathartic. 🌷

Evenstar · 15/10/2025 17:57

Thinking of you @Piggywaspushed

BIossomtoes · 15/10/2025 18:00

Just seen your post @Piggywaspushed. I’m so sorry, losing your mum irrevocably changes your world.

placemats · 15/10/2025 18:03

Piggywaspushed · 15/10/2025 16:24

Joining thread late just to read along. No tax.

Sorry, been a bit preoccupied of late as my mum died last week. You may recall she was in the US so it's been a very unsettling and odd experience.

I'm going to lose it and tell someone to fuck off. Nearly did it at work today.

So sorry to hear about the death of your mum. With condolences to you and rant away. Much love and sympathy.

placemats · 15/10/2025 18:07

bombastix · 15/10/2025 17:17

The cause is one thing. But to say there are not domestic problems is too sunny a view. We have a significant far right problem, we have a stuttering economy, and we have the budget of a lifetime to be delivered soon.

These are big problems domestically. I wish this government well, but it seems to me that you can’t ming vase this stuff. Reeves is to my mind very unimpressive.

It's not the budget of a lifetime. Stop being catastrophic. Reeves is the best chancellor this country has had since Gordon Brown.

Notonthestairs · 15/10/2025 18:17

A good episode from The Newsagents this evening highlighting the influence between the anti abortionist movement ADF & Reform (and the Tories) - using free speech as a means to open up discussions regarding abortion. And their incremental approach to changing UK policy.
Well worth a listen.

PandoraSocks · 15/10/2025 18:20

Tom Tugendhat on LBC slyly casting aspersions about the spying case. Going on about what Starmer said re: Johnson misleading Parliament etc., then weasely saying that of course he is not suggesting Starmer has done so.

Hmm. I hope Starmer has been absolutely straight on it all.

bombastix · 15/10/2025 18:22

Sorry placemats, I don’t agree. She is a poor politician.

It’s the budget of a lifetime because somehow she has to not break her manifesto promise, not raise tax on working people, and yet stick to her fiscal requirements. If she was a capable politician she would not have presented her budget as she did last year. She would have got her colleagues around the table to support her cuts, rather than assume she would get them and then belatedly pitch the hard line on welfare in Parliament which failed to deliver any cuts.

Gordon Brown’s fiscal genius was to design tests he knew he could meet before he met them, trumpet them loudly, and tell the market ahead of time. Those markets were calm. Reeves is nowhere near that level of political nous albeit in a more reactive world. She has deferred the budget to enable the bond market to calm down. That is probably not a bad move now. But why did she do it? Because the market reacts to the OBR, her fiscal promises, and instead of benefiting from them, she is actually being battered by her own devices and her previous unwise statements about a black hole in the government finances that now she has to fill.

She may be an excellent economist. But it’s a budget of a lifetime. We are close to public spending running to 100 percent of GDP. I will be interested to see what we get for that, and whether her budget decreases the rate the UK Government pays on its debt which is currently more than Liz Truss ever managed.

These are big problems. I am not convinced she has the political nous to navigate them.

SerendipityJane · 15/10/2025 18:23

BIossomtoes · 15/10/2025 17:57

I hope this link works. It’s a long read but absolutely worth it.

https://open.substack.com/pub/iratusursus/p/the-ceaseless-snip-snip-snip-of-a?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Thoughts and prayers to @Piggywaspushed - it's a dark time.

When Covid hit, I noted that all of a sudden ,all these companies (the same ones who found remote working "impossible, most likely) that were boasting of "100% efficiency" would be struggling as 10,20,30% of their workforce suddenly disappeared with illness.

When I was working in strategy for a corporate group, one of the heads of IT was shocked to find himself excluded from R&D initiatives. This was because he had (repeatedly) boasted of being 100% efficient, and so (the CEO reasoned after someone wrote a report pointing it out) had 0% to spare for anything that wasn't "productive".

I see no reason why I'd write anything different today.

DuncinToffee · 15/10/2025 18:31

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/oct/15/english-councils-to-remain-poorer-than-2010-despite-funding-boost-says-report

English councils to remain poorer than in 2010 despite funding rise, says report

Exclusive: Impact of austerity cannot be undone by end of parliament despite above-inflation funding, analysis finds

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 15/10/2025 18:35

Sorry for the C&P's

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/oct/15/gb-news-viewers-more-likely-to-wrongly-believe-net-migration-to-uk-increasing

GB News viewers more likely to wrongly believe net migration to UK rising, study finds

Research also finds majority of people are against letting politicians front current affairs programmes

OP posts:
placemats · 15/10/2025 18:47

Wee will agree to disagree bombastic.

LlttledrummergirI · 15/10/2025 18:51

Flowers @Piggywaspushed I am so sorry for your loss, I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling, but feel free to rant on here if it helps.

PandoraSocks · 15/10/2025 18:55

I am afraid I think Reeves should have gone a while ago. I don't think she is up to the job.

Eta: the Welfare Bil did deliver cuts and there will no doubt be changes to PIP once the review is completed. Disabled people are far from out of the woods ad there is a lot of anxiety in the disabled community. I have noticed another uptick of disability bashing threads on MN too.

LlynTegid · 15/10/2025 19:22

bombastix · 15/10/2025 18:22

Sorry placemats, I don’t agree. She is a poor politician.

It’s the budget of a lifetime because somehow she has to not break her manifesto promise, not raise tax on working people, and yet stick to her fiscal requirements. If she was a capable politician she would not have presented her budget as she did last year. She would have got her colleagues around the table to support her cuts, rather than assume she would get them and then belatedly pitch the hard line on welfare in Parliament which failed to deliver any cuts.

Gordon Brown’s fiscal genius was to design tests he knew he could meet before he met them, trumpet them loudly, and tell the market ahead of time. Those markets were calm. Reeves is nowhere near that level of political nous albeit in a more reactive world. She has deferred the budget to enable the bond market to calm down. That is probably not a bad move now. But why did she do it? Because the market reacts to the OBR, her fiscal promises, and instead of benefiting from them, she is actually being battered by her own devices and her previous unwise statements about a black hole in the government finances that now she has to fill.

She may be an excellent economist. But it’s a budget of a lifetime. We are close to public spending running to 100 percent of GDP. I will be interested to see what we get for that, and whether her budget decreases the rate the UK Government pays on its debt which is currently more than Liz Truss ever managed.

These are big problems. I am not convinced she has the political nous to navigate them.

Edited

I agree that the Chancellor is a poor politician, and is not alone in the government. I'm not sure an excellent economist either.

The public finance position comes from structural issues which go back many years, most of them but not all coming from successive Tory chancellors, but to an extent coming from some Blair/Brown years.

Some of the structural issues include

  • the inequality in wages, so many people pay little direct tax.
  • the lower ability to rely on 'sin' or other indirect taxes other than VAT- alcohol and tobacco consumption is less, and motoring fuel has fallen about 20-25% in real terms.
  • too many public services being free at the point of use instead of low cost. Free entry to museums, free bus passes instead of half price come to mind.
  • loss of tax income from 16 to 21/22 years as more are at university.
  • aging population.
itsgettingweird · 15/10/2025 19:27

Piggywaspushed · 15/10/2025 16:24

Joining thread late just to read along. No tax.

Sorry, been a bit preoccupied of late as my mum died last week. You may recall she was in the US so it's been a very unsettling and odd experience.

I'm going to lose it and tell someone to fuck off. Nearly did it at work today.

Condolences piggy Flowers

Look after yourself and take some time off of you need too

itsgettingweird · 15/10/2025 19:28

itsgettingweird · 15/10/2025 19:27

Condolences piggy Flowers

Look after yourself and take some time off of you need too

Off work. Not trying to say from here - you can come here and swear all you like and we will hold your hand through it.

MsJinks · 15/10/2025 19:43

A proud eagle from God’s own county …

Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses
bombastix · 15/10/2025 20:00

LlynTegid · 15/10/2025 19:22

I agree that the Chancellor is a poor politician, and is not alone in the government. I'm not sure an excellent economist either.

The public finance position comes from structural issues which go back many years, most of them but not all coming from successive Tory chancellors, but to an extent coming from some Blair/Brown years.

Some of the structural issues include

  • the inequality in wages, so many people pay little direct tax.
  • the lower ability to rely on 'sin' or other indirect taxes other than VAT- alcohol and tobacco consumption is less, and motoring fuel has fallen about 20-25% in real terms.
  • too many public services being free at the point of use instead of low cost. Free entry to museums, free bus passes instead of half price come to mind.
  • loss of tax income from 16 to 21/22 years as more are at university.
  • aging population.

Yes. I don’t think you can attribute all the UK’s long term economic problems and structural issues to Reeves. That would be very unfair and just politically partisan to do that. It defies logic.

Karistyleaftea · 15/10/2025 20:08

Thanks for the new thread Duncan. Fragrant flowers from fragrant me .

Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses
Karistyleaftea · 15/10/2025 20:17

@Piggywaspushed Condolences to you, sorry for your loss.
I lost my mum end of last year .

SerendipityJane · 15/10/2025 21:05

I like this guy ...

Thread 35 Starmer: Old and smelling of roses
DuncinToffee · 15/10/2025 21:10

He is having fun Grin

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 15/10/2025 21:13

Medpro misses deadline, £145.6m to pay back now

OP posts: