Immigration and the green party

[Honeybunny75]

I've always voted green,but probably not really looked as closely as I should of done at their policies.
They are saying they want a world with open borders .
I was just looking at their immigration policy.
How will that work, welcoming anyone who wants to come here ,how will that work when there's no houses to put them in .
I read recently that a huge amount of brits are homeless and in temporary accommodation waiting for a home ..so I can't see how we can take endless people in ...much as we may want to house the whole world,we are a small island

It massively reduces inequality too.

@Sartre how does it reduce inequality?

I think there needs to be a lot of clear talk about what plans Reform have for the NHS , because I’ve repeatedly heard “ I’d vote for them, except I want to keep the NHS”, it’s the sticking point for a lot of people.

Agreed.

Although what I would much rather see happen is take the NHS out of politics entirely and set up a cross party commission to review it and reform it.

Isn’t one of the hosts Alastair Campbell who was part of the EU freedom of movement plans alongside Tony Blair?

Actually yes ,your right
No political party should be able to decide to get rid of it or massively change it
It's part of what makes Britain great .
Reform should not be allowed to privatise it ,,not should any other party

But we need to limit cars.

There really aren’t that many immigrants here when you look at the actual figures. We just need to invest in the backlog of asylum claims - it’s housing people who aren’t allowed to work that’s costing us millions.

431,000 (net) out of a population of 69 million is just really not a lot of people.

In 2004, when eight central European countries joined the EU, member states could choose to delay full access to labour markets to assess impact. Labour under Tony Blair decided not to.

The Home Office estimated an annual net increase of 13,000 workers from the new states, but nearly 130,000 arrived in the first 12 months, according to one estimate. Official figures for 2004 showed a significant jump in net migration, mainly due to arrivals for work. This trend continued until controls were put in place a few years later.

This had an impact on our economy which we’re still feeling the effects of now. Work in rural communities, mainly done by young people and seasonal workers because almost wholly fulfilled by European migrants because they were happy to live in substandard accommodation and be paid less. Wage suppression is a real problem for our country still today.

Open borders only works if every country is uniform.

If one country - ie the UK, or indeed Rep of Ireland atm - offers generous benefits compared with anywhere else then naturally that country is a magnet.

A mobile workforce is a dream of Big Business - but a) many people do not move country with the aim of working (non-working/contributing wives and family members) and b) in the future (near future) we won’t need so many workers.

But the NHSSSS - I hear you cry. How many men in Rochdale/Luton/Bradford work in care homes?

EU at least has minimum wage as shitty as it can be sometimes, it's still something. And yes, even then there was undercutting here too. That stabilised later iirc.

I have experience from job market where NMW is really not a thing, people arrive to look for jobs on tourist visa (not supoosed to but hundreds of thousands do) and managed to lower salaries on the already lower paid jobs to basicaly level of their own countries by under bidding each other and take unreasonable hours. Genuine cases of "I know you offer xxx but I am willing to do it for x less so take me". The salaries for already low paid positions are now even more abysmal. And when I say abysmal, I mean ot liveable unless you share room with 20 and eat very little. Even at higher positions salaries are dropping and hours are ridicolous.

With UK having NMW, it wouldn't be so easy to underbid, BUT it could push many other lower salaries from above NMW back to NMW. Plus happy to sign doing more than 48 hours a week. Good luck to anyone wanting work life balance if they want a job.

Open border would absolute bring the above on because 10 an hour is better than 2.50 an hour at home countries.

Years ago when I was more naive than I am now (low bar, I'm a cynical old bag now) I read about the Greens wanting to build on the countryside to house more immigrants, the least "green" policy I could think of, pretty much. Before that I remember the Green party in Germany getting a win and celebrating by having a giant hog roast 😢. I could call myself a purple peacock, it wouldn't make me one. "Hope not Hate" are one of the most hateful organisations I've ever encountered. You really have to read the manifestos to get any idea of a party's policies, and then they often leave a lot out (as seen with the present lot). What I would like to say though is that Reform don't want to get rid of the NHS, they want to change it, and it needs changing in many ways, there was a debate on bringing fox hunting back while the Conservatives were in power and they voted not to have it (thank God), Lib Dems don't seem to know what constitutes a woman (see also Greens, David Lammy and Keir Starmer sometimes depending on how he feels that day), Labour seem to absolutely despise the working class... Honestly, it's such a mess. The Conservatives were changing their leader every five minutes even when they were popular (Boris Johnson). or hadn't been given a chance (Liz Truss), but Labour have the worst and least popular leader ever and seem determined to cling on to him (or perhaps to replace him just before the next election?). Sorry this post is such a mess OP, you've unleashed years of pent up political frustration!

Hog roast ,for a green party .😩😩😩
Your right about reading the whole manifesto
I wish reform would say they are keeping the NHS and give some assurance that the genuine disabled will not have benefits cut

Clearly you havent used it recently! Makes Britain great??? It is a monster out of control and with unfettered immigration will only get worse and worse. People are also living longer and making more and more demands on it.

I would though like to see a cross party group but it will never happen. Just look at PM Questions - its a bear pit where both sides just poke at each other.

Because it's underfunded ..but it could be great again

What does genuine disabled mean? It was tried recently to get the sprialling benefits bill but the backbenchers stopped it.

MH has become the back back of my generation and difficult to prove. Yet the usual suspects will claim its very difficult to get. Clearly it isnt hence the huge rise in successful claims.

I don't really know ..my boys are autistic with learning disabilities and either need to live at home or live where they are looked after .
It worries me terribly what will happen to them when I'm dead

Like we had to change the oven from gas to electricity, because he put the gas on at 4 am and the whole house was filled will gas ..
Things like that ..so needs looking after

I diagree with unfunded. They just dont know how to manage it. Money is massively wasted. NHS run little cottage industries to ensure that they keep their role and hence the public sector pension scheme which is unheard of outside of their sector.

I was a supplier for many many years to government depts and the waste and endless meetings about very little would make you cry. There were cost savings to be made time and time again and yet I was told to come back after my meeting with a group of say 10 people. Four months would go by, I chased it and another 10 people would appear when another meeting was called.

I was even asked if I could backdate any savings months and in one case over 1 year because 'I should accept that government depts take ages to make a final decision'

To many managers and pen pushers and not enough matrons

This is completely untrue. It is one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world. You are just spouting the usual rubbish from Reform or the Daily Mail. Per capita spend is lower than the G7 average. Health outcomes are not the best (lowest in the G7 for cancer survival but this is improving each year), however overall we do pretty well. The problem with the NHS is that it is massively underfunded (thanks to the Tories) and had had some partial privatisation which is expensive and ineffective (thanks again Tories).
Anyone who believes Nigel Farage and Reform will do anything but gut the NHS for profit (he is in bed with the US insurance companies) is an absolute fool.

How are they going to just get rid of landlords ?

Any idea that Landlords are just going to roll over and give their properties to the state is for the birds . They’ll be tied up in legal action far beyond their term in office .
These fringe parties are not serious challengers on any level .

I think
The problem is conservative and Labour are both so shit at moment,it's letting people think parties on the edge actually have a shot ..
There's 4 years to go for next election,and I hope the two main parties can pull their socks up .
Because for completely different reasons I don't think either reform or green are going to be good for UK .

Its mad! Those houses are owned by someone. You cannot just take them! You could offer a crap price and they could refuse. What next? You then have properties that are empty whilst all this nonsense is going on. Is being a landlord going to be illegal? Will they go to jail?

What about people who have houses are that are too big for them? Who judges this? Are you going to force them to downsize?

I think it would be mote push out by undoable rules than a confiscation of assets.

Hahahaha,

You are in for a long wait if you want Reform to print that, even if they did, they'd ignore it on day one.

If the British public knew what Farage and his billionaire pals had in store for the UK and our rights....

Also your post is incorrect. The Green party do not propose an open border, if you read anything published by the Greens, you'd know that's bullshit.

'In the Green Party we are not normally shy of making policies for our ideal world. However to unilaterally remove our border controls seems a step too far and is a tough sell on the doorsteps. Instead here we propose a system of managed migration, with visas and rules. This will enable us to welcome migrants to the UK and treat them with dignity, and to also not dismantle the system of control in case we need to restrict movement in the future for whatever reason.'