If you have a child with autism that can be violent..

[Colouroutsidethelines]

How do you feel when you find out they have attacked school staff? How do you respond?

I am a teaching assistant. I was playing in the garden with another staff member and four children who all have an autism or ADHD diagnosis.

The child I was playing with in the construction area is in year 4 and very articulate. We were conversing nicely, talking about his favourite cars. He then got up and walked off and before I stood up, he had gone behind me, picked up a large wooden log and cracked me hard over the head with it.

It caught me completely off guard and I did cry with the pain as I ran inside to seek first aid.

Curious to how you would respond if this was your child.

As someone with two relatives with two severe mental health problems, and knowing the realities of how inpatient mental health units work, I have every sympathy for people with mental health problems.

Imo, bed management has no place in physical or mental health discharges!

Iirc, children under 10 are below the age of criminal responsibility, precisely because their cognitive skills are not developed enough for them to fully understand the consequences of what they are doing. They may also be impulsive and act without thinking, when hopefully as they mature, they will develop some coping strategies for this.

I speak as the mother of a DD, without mental capacity, who often threatened to kill me 10 times a day for 2 years. Not just me - DH, her sister and care workers. I sometimes asked DH not to go out and leave me in the house alone with her. She is bigger and stronger than I am. I wouldn’t have turned my back on her, because there is nothing to stop her doing whatever she wants. She cannot learn any new information, functions at about the level of an 18 month old; and even if you spent 2 hours explaining to her about murder being a crime, she wouldn’t understand what the abstract word crime means; and she would have forgotten everything you said, within 30 seconds. There’s been loads of MDT meetings about it for years. She has behaviour support plans, written by the Positive Behaviour Support Team.

I accept she is what she is, and what’s happened to her is not her fault. It’s a tragedy for her and the family; but mainly her.

I don’t know @Uggbootsforever - maybe MN will be a good barometer, ie fewer threads complaining about autistic children being shoehorned into inappropriate mainstream provision, and disturbing little Timmy’s education, will be a sign that the support is reaching all the children it needs. We seem to be a long way from that at the moment.

Fwiw I am extremely happy with DS’ SEN support, funded by our LA and delivered by an educational trust. It took me years to secure it, despite DS being diagnosed with classic autism at age 3, and it cost me my career and about £30,000 of private clinical consultations. (I claim DLA for DS without guilt as a result). I also recognize that’s it’s far easier for the sharp-elbowed parents to get their children’s needs met. So I think it’s wrong to assume that the majority are like us and have wrestled a decent outcome for their SEN child from a cash-strapped LA. Many are still struggling to get their LA’s to perform the basics of their legal duty towards DC because, whatever the optics, there is not enough funding to meet need.

This is a fair point re sharb elbows.

We have the things in place that we need, from the various services we need it from.

But I’m also aware that firstly - I come from a SENd background and that gives us an advantage. I’m also like a broken record and can be… determined. Certainly not blunt elbows.

I do think that in the midst of the exhaustion that being a SENd parent brings, it’s very easy to not keep on top of the many emails and forms, and to be taken advantage of by LAs who won’t do their duty. If you don’t know what argument you’re having, it’s very hard to have it.

Most sen children aren't getting those things and that is the problem

@Uggbootsforeverwhere I live, the nearest special school with places is out of area. And the council have stopped out of area placements. I’m not seeing any of this support you feel is being given. But I’m guessing your children are accessing an education, so that’s ok.

Yes there are too many dc with needs and often several EHCPs, one TA and it is difficult

what happened 20 years ago?

Yep - DGD is getting none of those things, despite being diagnosed with severe ADHD and significant autistic traits. Her infant school didn’t notice nor planned to do anything about it either, despite her being years behind in some respects. It was only because I sent DS the relevant sections of The Children and Families Act 2014 and the SEN Code of Practice, that DS was able to argue effectively against the school - that they needed to produce an IEP, that actually had something in it! She was being totally failed!

EHCPs absolutely can be enforced, including via JR if necessary. They need to be correctly written, which may take an appeal, but it is possible.

I really dislike the ‘sharp-elbowed’ rhetoric. It puts the blame on the parents, and let’s be honest, people mostly mean mothers, for being demanding. Advocating for their child and enforcing their child’s legal rights doesn’t make them sharp-elbowed.

Yes, DC whose parents know the system, can advocate for them and enforce their DC’s rights get better support. It shouldn’t be that way. All parents should be supported to do the same. Sadly, it isn’t going to change in the foreseeable. But that isn’t the fault of those parents who do advocate and enforce their rights.

Too many children with needs.

As if you actually typed those words.

There does seem to be more and more though

why?

I'm really fed up of people asking "why".

Covid then massive cutbacks in support services.
School curricula (Gove) more demanding and inflexible.
Destruction of creative/practical subjects.
Focus on and messaging around attendance.
More recognition of neurodiversity especially in girls.
Fewer special schools.
Teachers with little training in SEND (mostly).
Assortatitive mating.
Baby boom peaking in 2012-13.
Media coverage where previously there was hardly any reporting.

Have all had an effect especially on autism/ADHD rates.

But as pp pointed out, the actual number (proportion) of kids with SEND is stable over time. Even Baroness Warnock said 20% I believe. That was 1978!

The main problem ime is how little flexibility there is, in start dates, uniforms, curricula, qualifications, numbers, buildings...

I used to work with children some had special needs but I can only recall once been hit on the head with a wooden brick by a Down syndrome little boy. It wasn’t too bad as it was across the room but it could have taken my eye out! I couldn’t work with the children you describe. Am sorry you have had this happen , I can understand your frustration . Is it covid that has caused all this do you think ? The lack of socialisation at a crucial age ? Or is it because our society is breaking down . Could you work as a carer to the elderly. It is very rewarding . Hard work yes but at least you will not be assaulted with logs !

Oh I don’t know. My ex FIL had dementia and kicked me in the head for trying to put socks on.

I wouldn’t bank on caring for the elderly being pain free.

Has anyone ever asked why you exist?

Just think for a millisecond how fucking rude that is.

I think it is a valid question

I think it’s a bullshit question.

Our children exist because they do. Like it or lump it.

But you’ve been told the answer. You just don’t like it. 🤷‍♀️

These children have always existed. They are just recognized and diagnosed more effectively now. We also know what helps (and that it’s not cheap).

There are also genetic factors at play that we do not yet fully understand eg the link between older parents and autism, the tendency of ND people to couple up with others.

We’re not being overtaken by an invasive new species, for goodness sake!

Absolutely my mum had dementia and she was normally so gentle but could hit out at personal care .Being trained the right way can help with this and they changed her in pairs. Not all homes take dementia sufferers though.

Yep.

My son is thriving at mainstream school because of his EHCP which is absolutely enforced and followed. It also helps that he goes to a wonderful school who pushed the LA as hard as I did.

The disdain you show towards “little Jimmy” though? So your son has a right to an education but it doesn’t matter if Jimmy and his classmates do. Or that their learning is significantly affected by the inclusion of violent pupils in the classroom.

Everyone has a right to education. Both Little Jimmy and Violent Vincent.

Would you prefer those children you refer to were not included, or better supported?

Op you really shouldn’t be supporting children with SEND with significant needs if you view them as not worthy of support.

Agreed. If the people directly responsible for the care of our child were on the internet talking about him like this and asking what about Timmy; I’d have huge concerns.

Nevermind Timmy, your actual job is to support Violent Vincent. Either get on with it or move back to working with Timmy.

if holding the school to account in regards to following an EHCP that is a legal document that they're obliged to follow by law, makes me 'sharp elbowed' then you can bet your fucking arses i'm sharp elbowed.

Again, putting words in my mouth. Of course violent children need support, but it shouldn’t be at the cost of the other children in the school going without.

More specialist schools are desperately needed. I’m worried how they will staff them however..