If you have a child with autism that can be violent..

[Colouroutsidethelines]

How do you feel when you find out they have attacked school staff? How do you respond?

I am a teaching assistant. I was playing in the garden with another staff member and four children who all have an autism or ADHD diagnosis.

The child I was playing with in the construction area is in year 4 and very articulate. We were conversing nicely, talking about his favourite cars. He then got up and walked off and before I stood up, he had gone behind me, picked up a large wooden log and cracked me hard over the head with it.

It caught me completely off guard and I did cry with the pain as I ran inside to seek first aid.

Curious to how you would respond if this was your child.

You seem to be having trouble following a simple Mumsnet thread - which is concerning, given your previous bragging about your high powered job and high IQ son. 🙄

I'm the person that mentioned warehousing in the context of violent children that aren't safe to socialise/interact with any other children.

With regards to adult social care, I seriously doubt it's the old grannies that are bankrupting local councils. It will be the 4:1 24x7 care required for violent SEN adults.

My point is simply that the entire bespoke care system is unaffordable for society. There are other spending properties and the entire country doesn't exist simply to provide unlimited budget for SEN children and adults.

Where do you draw the line? If somebody's 'sensory needs' were better met in the weightlessness of space, would we be obliged to pay for them to live on the International Space Station?

would we be obliged to pay for them to live on the International Space Station?

That is not going to be deemed to reasonably required in law. You can breathe easy.

That's so odd because there are so many families like mine where the child can't cope in mainstream but can't get a place in a special school. My child is missing from education, my child gets nothing. NOT one but if Education,
LA would love us to home Ed so they don't need to provide anything ever. My child is sadly not alone. Not violent so even less likely to get any support before they age out of school age

I have never used those words. You have decided how I feel without actually reading the facts. I was actually badly hurt. I didn’t put tons of details in the OP. I just wanted some perspective about the mams reaction as I found it very jarring. I show everyone kindness and empathy, especially the children I work with.

But I do feel that I can’t do the job I once loved and help and support the children the way I want to, because every spare moment is spent dealing with behaviour. All my colleagues feel the same. 12 staff members have left over the last 16 months.

It’s an awfully sad situation all round, for all children .

I don’t know why you keep adding on things like “for all children.” It just makes it sound like the blame lies with the “difficult ones.”

That’s what I was asking. If having to work with that challenging behaviour, because the expectation is that mainstream schools are inclusive towards that, is making you want to leave.

I think that’s a shame, in honesty, as those 12 people evidently don’t want to work with children like mine.

IMO that’s a shame because those children need your support probably more than others, and deserve the opportunity to get it too. I think it’s unpleasant that they’d be part of anyone’s reason to change sector. They’re kids who need help.

so you think i'm lying about him?

FTR he developed ME/CFS 12 years ago after he contracted a virus called Guillain Barre that put him in hospital.. you're welcome to google it.

He still works because he's good at his work, and coding/website architecture is his 'special interest', and has a disability friendly employer who values the work he does, if he wasn't employed to do it, he'd do it anyway recreationally (and does in his spare time).

The fact is, he is a diagnosed autistic adult with a high salary job role, he's a good role model for youngsters like my son who can see that it IS possible to hold a job, and be a functioning adult with a home, a car, and a family despite having complex disabilities.

The fact you and others on this thread are treating children who have some violent behaviour when they're still developmentally immature like they're disposable trash that should be given up on speaks volumes about you.

That’s where your selfishness shines. Your child isn’t the only one that needs help.

The children that have speech and language delays can’t be taken out for interventions because the staff are taken up with behaviour. The ones in nappies that can’t be toilet trained because we don’t have a spare pair of hands. The children that are academically behind that can’t be placed in smaller groups and helped to catch up etc etc I could go on and on.

ALL children need support!

They have left because they didn’t choose to work in a specialist provision,which is what it now feels like.

We are hurt every single day. Children are hurt and witnessing appalling violence and language. Do we want them to grow up being so desensitised to violence around them?

I am specifically talking about violent children here, not little Jimmy who likes to line things up. There is a huge difference.

"With regards to adult social care, I seriously doubt it's the old grannies that are bankrupting local councils. It will be the 4:1 24x7 care required for violent SEN adults."

So what are you planning on doing with those severely disabled adults?

It isn’t. Your specific job is to work in that hub with those children.

Thats like saying it’s selfish to expect my sons 1:1 to work with him. It isn't, it’s her job. The people specifically employed and assigned to support him, should be.

The problem you’re describing is that your school doesn’t have the staff to meet the needs of its students. Take that up with your SLT/trust, etc.

You’re right, all of those children should be receiving the support they need. I’d be saying that equally if my child needed SALT they weren’t getting.

They’re not getting it because your school doesn’t have the right staff and resources. Your headteacher should really do something about that.

I don’t think you’re lying but it’s as I suspected. He wasn’t diagnosed til 17, so obviously not profoundly impacted enough for this to be picked up on earlier. So he’s probably at the end of the spectrum most likely to be employed, have a high IQ etc

From what you've said though, school certainly aren't helping with that. No child has an EHCP in place, no child has 1:1's etc they are just shoved between a library and a nursery garden which isn't going to help their behaviour.

If local authorities opened more special schools, then surely children with sen could be taught appropriately, with no need for 'warehousing' (horrible thing to say). Part of the reason the cost of sen schooling is so high at the moment is that many children end up eventually having to be sent to expensive private special schools that are often run by private equity. Then other children with sen end up with no appropriate provision at all. If enough state special schools were opened then it would be much easier to cater to all the children who need specialist education. Back in the 70s, there were a huge number of lea special schools, the country was broke then and managed to afford them.

Something cheaper and more fiscally sustainable, which presumably would involve economies of scale to reduce staffing ratios. The status quo is simply unaffordable.

Reducing staffing ratios would leave people unsafe. Violence to staff would increase because they’d be less equipped to manage behaviour, and the individuals would also be at obviously increased risk.

I’m sure that’s not something you’d be happy with.

It’s the same across schools everywhere. Most of the children in a class are now presenting with SENd. The eradication sector can’t cope!

Education even!

And no one wasn’t employed 25 years ago to work in a “hub”, it’s where I’ve been put for now because of my nature I’m apparently a calm influence ..

That's a very sweeping statement. Who are you to decide that? Why is it decent care for disabled people that is unaffordable and not all of the subsidies and perks that are given to big companies, and all the tax dodging and everything else they get away with?

Government statistics from 24/25

There's always potential difficulties when you start a job and then the role changes significantly over time. We've all got different skills and there's no shame in this not being the right sort of work for you.

For many, a larger setting doesn’t actually change the staffing ratio required. In the majority of cases, someone who needs 1:1/2:1/3:1/4:1 still needs that, and they sometimes need more support because of the different the environment.

Hyperbole doesn’t help your cause, OP. Most children do not have SEN, which you would see if you read the first link I posted in my post about the statistics.

"Something cheaper and more fiscally sustainable, which presumably would involve economies of scale to reduce staffing ratios. The status quo is simply unaffordable."

So you are going to put severely disabled adults who live alone because they get very distressed by other people, in a group setting where they are going to get more distressed, with a lower ratio of staff. Think about what that environment is going to be like and how you are going to find staff to work there.

With respect, if you don’t like the hub don’t work in it.

@ThisOldThang apologies, I didn’t realise you were the ‘warehousing’ poster. Lucky it’s only a bunch of randoms posting on MN and nothing that actually matters eh?

I certainly don’t have a “high-powered” job. I used to have one, but a disabled child will royally fuck that up for most mothers. I do work though, and I mentioned my line management responsibilities in the context of a discussion about “gentle parenting” to make it clear that I was no such thing.

I also mentioned DS’ IQ only to challenge your revolting ‘warehouse’ post that implied that no SEN child would ever hold down a job. With all due respect, that is craven horseshit. But fwiw I would take a thick-as-mince version of DS if I could take away his disabilities and give him a more normal life. And if not IQ, what criteria would you propose to decide which children got the warehouse treatment and who was generously allowed to go to school?

And there is no “bespoke care system” (and you are delusional to think that there is, despite what you are being told by SEN parents on here. Good care is expensive, whether it’s grannies, NT children or children with developmental delay or disabilities. Changing the setting to one of industrialized care does not do anything to address the acuity of need. It just dehumanizes people.

Have a little read of the Equality Act if you want to better understand why your space station comment is so daft. The only legal obligation it applies towards disabled people is to make ‘reasonable adjustments’ - if we can’t manage that as a society then we have no business calling ourselves civilised.

And I absolutely guarantee that if your child had a neurodevelopmental disability as mine does, you would be baying for more care, more support, better teaching, because that’s what decent parents do. You wouldn’t just shrug and say “too expensive, nah!”

My son is thick as mince and doesn’t have a normal life.

He’s 9 and still not toilet trained. He’s spontaneously learned the word crocodile, but not any of the words we need to check his wellbeing or why he wants to throw his own shit on the walls.

He’d absolutely be in a warehouse, and wouldn’t even be particularly helpful with parcels.