How different can your beliefs be and remain friends?

[Bideo]

I'm well known in my friendship group as a bleeding heart lefty, with the rest of them being (I thought) slightly right of centre.

Two of them went on the Tommy Robinson March last weekend. They didn't invite me (naturally), knew what I'd say if they did, but it was no secret with posts on FB etc.

Amoung our wider circle there's been a bit of a backlash. One man of Asian origin posted, not in direct response, but I expect it was in response iyswim, about how upsetting it was to see people he knows supprting this racist march. Now this is the most mild mannered man. Completely westernised in his daily life, supports his parents' customs for things like weddings and festivals. Professional job and a huge volunteer. If we talk about contribution he does much more than most.

I replied with something much more neutral than it might have been about how upsetting it is to see people being sucked in by the hate, even if they believe they were there for other reasons, the undertone is there and you can't support a rally like that without supporting the man and his ethos. It felt important to support this man who must be finding the general atmosphere where we live very uncomfortable currently.

As you'd expect it hasn't gone down well with the people who went on the march, who believe they went on the March in protest at illegal immigration and are not at all racist against anyone who is here legally.

I suspect on the surface, it will blow over, but....

Let me guess, you’re white, middle class and judging by your age benefited greatly from the prosperous years now long gone. Of course you view the human rights act and equalities act useless due to your privileged background.

For others it has been used to defend the rights of disabled people, LGBTQ+ people, journalists, migrants, survivors of sexual assault, workers, children, grieving families, soldiers, and many more.

Undoing progress and setting us back as a society has always been a fetish for your age group. First it was Brexit and now it’s going to be reform.

If you went on the march you’re a racist, regardless of whether you think you are or not. That would be an instant friendship ender for me. Free speech does not mean hate speech.

Same for me

To quote a phrase I saw on facebook

Racism is not a disagreement just as arsenic is not a flavour

I personally think some people on the Right should stop Sieg Heiling, assaulting police officers and pissing in hospital grounds while on (allegedly) a free speech march.

How about you?

So much ageism and racism in one post. If you really think society has progressed since Blair ( particularly for the young) you must be on drugs. I don't give a shit about myself I had a great time before Blair wrecked it, I just care about my 4 children and their cohorts of all races.

No idea what your wittering on about. I so wish people could have a sensible debate.

Judging by the demographic of the march goers he’s probably far less useless and detrimental to the women in his life than the men on that march.

@Menopausalsourpuss

This is the trouble, so much hysteria ( I think encouraged by social media). I can assure you that the number of people against your existence is very low

BTW, stop telling people who are not white British or have family members who aren't what they should think about the march, or anything else Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is involved in. You may not see how it looks but it is very poor indeed.

Oh but you do.

Same here! I’ve lived all over the Uk, (I’ve moved over 17 times!) and have heard racist views many times from friends and neighbours. It used to really shock me but to my shame didn’t call it out. The last 10 years I always call it out and distance myself from these people, I have zero tolerance for it.

@Bideo I wouldn’t care that they said they don’t agree with TR, they’ve went on his march and for me that would be it. We all need to show extra support for our non white friends during this awful time.

What the hell have I just read?!

I will get on with most people. I would draw the line at anyone who believes TWAW and everything that goes with it. If they’re prepared to lie to themselves and to others and expect me to lie also then they are not the kind of person I want to know.

I know, I've reported it.

No it just sounds like wittering not a serious attempt at debate. I have no idea what I wrote that you disagree with but that's because you make no sense.

So have I.

Seems you have some underlying assumptions there which are a bit Tommy Robinson...

I agree society hasn't progressed for the young. Brexit has robbed them of so many chances.

Or is that not what you meant?

It depends on the depth of the friendship.

I have some that have not survived differing beliefs and others that have.

I'd be friends with anyone aslong as they don't push their views on to me

No I'm taking about:
Unaffordable housing (since well before Brexit).
Too many going to uni, not valuing jobs like caring so having to import workers whilst millions on benefits (before and got worse since Brexit).
Country in masses of debt particularly since lockdown taxes higher than ever but services worse than ever (how is that related to Brexit?).
Young people lonelier than ever not going out, on phones (much worse since lockdowns) - not Brexit.
Brexit could be a component but not the main culprit.

Many years ago, an old university lecturer of mine said "Don't bother arguing with anti Semites. They know what they're doing and saying and they don't care". I'm increasingly convinced that the same applies to racists, especially the ones who defend Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and his crew online.

But what do we do, as their "war" is online and meant to dismiss objectors and convince others?

Well, you can blame unaffordable housing on Thatcher to begin with - her right to buy started it all. Successive governments made it worse.

Not wanting to pay carers properly - you can blame corporate care companies for that one. It's funny how people on the right never want to tackle the dodgy things business does to maximise its profits but which adversely impacts workers, and somehow it's always the political left that gets the blame. The mental contortion here is Olympic level.

Lockdown policy - well, you can't blame Blair for that. You can blame the previous government for not locking down sooner (which would have meant shorter) and for underfunding the NHS for a decade prior to the pandemic so that it was not equipped to cope. Oh, and then there were the cuts to pandemic preparation, also under the last government. Again, right wingers don't want to acknowledge that.

Loneliness is everywhere. Among young people it comes in part from our ridiculous education system, which values academia and denigrates vocational teaching. Whose idea was doubling down on that again? Oh.... Gove. Among working age people, a strong contributing factor is the ridiculous culture of presenteeism. If you look at Scandinavian countries, the culture is to work your hours and then go to your family and spend time with them. Over here, if you're not last out of the office, you get side eyed. Change that culture, watch loneliness drop and productivity improve - but you'd have to take on busniess in the UK and successive governments are too chicken to do that. The worker's rights bill is a baby step in the right direction.

Brexit has robbed young people of the opportunity to live and work and study in other countries. It has robbed older people of the opportunity to reture in the sun. It has robbed musicians and other artists of the opportunity to perform. It has robbed the UK research establishment of millions in investment. It was the stupidest thing this country ever did - but you probably voted for it...

Thank you pointy for arguing logically and sensibly on here unlike some others (@Uricon). I don't agree with you but can see where you're coming from. This is what the op should be doing with her friends rather than dismissing her friends or thinking they're uneducated.

I don't consider racism to be a political stance, I just consider it morally wrong and I wouldn't be friends with someone who I thought was a bad person.