How different can your beliefs be and remain friends?

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I'm well known in my friendship group as a bleeding heart lefty, with the rest of them being (I thought) slightly right of centre.

Two of them went on the Tommy Robinson March last weekend. They didn't invite me (naturally), knew what I'd say if they did, but it was no secret with posts on FB etc.

Amoung our wider circle there's been a bit of a backlash. One man of Asian origin posted, not in direct response, but I expect it was in response iyswim, about how upsetting it was to see people he knows supprting this racist march. Now this is the most mild mannered man. Completely westernised in his daily life, supports his parents' customs for things like weddings and festivals. Professional job and a huge volunteer. If we talk about contribution he does much more than most.

I replied with something much more neutral than it might have been about how upsetting it is to see people being sucked in by the hate, even if they believe they were there for other reasons, the undertone is there and you can't support a rally like that without supporting the man and his ethos. It felt important to support this man who must be finding the general atmosphere where we live very uncomfortable currently.

As you'd expect it hasn't gone down well with the people who went on the march, who believe they went on the March in protest at illegal immigration and are not at all racist against anyone who is here legally.

I suspect on the surface, it will blow over, but....

One friend and I have quite different views on politics and her anti Covid vaccination view point was the opposite to mine but we avoid these subjects and we do have lots of other things in common.

Yes I said I didn't want to get into a discussion. My life is fine thanks I was talking about the country as a whole and particularly my children in the future. I was including the Tories in the group of people in the past 20 years who've runied the country from the lovely place it was. The point of my post was to say its best not to discuss politics as you'll never reach agreement and these days its very personal - that's if you want to remain friends.

Im a white person. All my life white people have made racist statements to me expecting me to agree. I say I don't share their views. When I was a child black people were regularly called monkeys and other vile names.
There is an element in the UK that see non whites as sub human. They have always been angry and unhappy, most of these people are dissofected and chose to punch down. They are looking at somewhere to park their hatred. So no i dont want to be friends, never have.

I would struggle to remain friends with people who attend a Tommy Robinson march, and don't understand that by doing so they are supporting him whether or not they believe they support him. Because that is really quite dim. And if they took a couple of seconds to think, they should have known exactly how upsetting it would be to friends of theirs who are not white.

I had a friend whose husband was anti vax and she 'never got round to organising one' As I am immunocompromised and this was still in the thick of infections this directly impacted me so we stopped being friends.

Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. I couldn't be friends with someone who thought attending a SYL march was an acceptable way of protesting immigration. And don't get me started on people bleating 'illegal immigration ' meaning small boat arrivals because they are choosing to not understand.

Your Asian friend deserves better friends.

I absolutely do not dare to mention to my two longest standing female friends that I don't believe trans women are literal women - based on comments they've made, I think they would not hesitate to cut me off and never speak to me again. This makes me sad as we have been friends for so long.

Of course. But surely you can believe immigration is too high and harming the country without believing that non-whites are sub human?

There are some views I just can’t respect so therefore if someone held those views, I couldn’t be their friend. I am never going to be friends with anyone who are racist or homophobic or would chant in support of Tommy Robinson.

But with some views, think it’s also a lot about how important the view is to them and how they communicate their views. You can disagree on something but it’s got to be respectful if you’re friends.

For example, one of our friends is pro life and when we have discussed it, she explains why she feels the way she does, acknowledges that there are cases that she struggles with, and accepts that the rest of us feel differently. However, when one of our friends had a termination, although this particular friend didn’t agree with it, she was the one who drove our other friend home, stayed with her and cared for her for a couple of days and provided a lot of emotional support. Helping her friend mattered more to her in that time than her pro life belief. Her beliefs are rooted in religion and we can respect that because we know she is a very caring person.

I think it’s fine so long as you respect each other’s views, and know that if there is anything particularly contentious, you don’t discuss it - it’s just easier to steer clear. I hold strong views so I expect others to do the same - but I’m not going to fall out with friends over a difference of opinion.

This is obviously a made up post , I am 56 and have never heard that. And if this is such a racist country why have we had so much non white immigratio. Ffs we are one of the least racist countries in the world in surveys (the most racist are places like India) - you need to travel more.

Someone once explained the Overton window to me with a metaphor I really like: it is more like a large sheet of clear plastic material, with several corners being held up by people with various different positions, who stretch it into various directions.

Those people are the people you hang around (IRL friends, online influencers, community leaders, government etc). Your personal "plastic sheet" is held up by all the people in your life. And likewise you are holding up a corner of a plastic sheet for each of YOUR friends. Your set of views are seen by them, lovingly, as an acceptable and reasonable set of views held by someone they care about and therefore worth considering. They might not fully agree but they will find it hard, because humans don't like demonising their in-group of friends, to fully embrace worldviews that exclude you.

When you cut them off you drop your corner of their sheet and they drop their corner of your sheet.

It's very destabilising having what's seen as an "extremist" view. I think people who are really far in a direction benefit the most from having some of their "corners" in the centre ground to anchor them. Immigration is one of those topics where it's very common to be concerned about illegal & mass migration but there are also a lot of extremists waiting to pick up "corners" in all directions.

I have observed a type all my life. Its a type i avoid. Ths type has alligned with Tommy Robinson.

I think it is a sad world where people cannot find enough good in others to maintain friendships with some differences but cutting friends or family off for thinking differently does seem to be more prevalent now than it ever has been. It's as though people want real life curated by an algorithm as it is online to keep them in an echo chamber

There were far too many people at that march for them all to be racists or even to be stupid, misinformed, etc so a lot will be like your friends, ordinary people who feel overlooked and unheard.

Yes its sad

I agree it is their responsibility to read both sides of a debate. But realistically, some people don't have the ability/know-how to select well researched resources and fully understand them.
People who have thoroughly read into an issue and do understand it can choose whether to scorn those who have read less, or whether it would be more beneficial to stay friends/civil and discuss it with them.

I don't think it's made up, I think it depends where in the country you've lived. I'm the same age as you and I can remember exactly the (very offensive) words a friend's father used when telling 10yo me why he wanted Thatcher to win the election because of how he thought she'd deal with a group of nin white immigrants that were starting to move into our area.

No. Because (a) there is no evidence immigration is too high and (b) it is never a conversation about white Americans... "Too high" is not a measurable quantity. You can have a conversation about how we might attract the people with the skills and abilities that we need (which includes, as always, workers for very low paid and insecure employments), but if we are not filling those roles with people already in the country then we need to discuss immigration in an informed way. There is no "mass immigration" as claimed - the facts do not bear out "uncontrolled immigration" because it is in fact highly controlled. And as the largest group are actually students, having made the UK a less attractive destination has now put many of our universities in peril of bankruptcy. Not sure how doing that has benefitted the UK...

This is my worst nightmare. I think I purposely went to a left leaning uni to avoid it.

My mum has colonial views as she grew up in country under apartheid. My dad is run of the mill conservative with a small c. Then I went to private school and saw what tories with a big C look like 😂

DB is now a TR supporter, long story.

I do think, now I write it out, that DB and DM are more extreme - maybe that's the key - distance yourself from anyone who has extreme views?? But this is sad to do when you realise it means reducing down contact with these people.

On the above - I do think it's just not worth questioning someone's reasons for going on a march.

We live in a country where you have a right to go on a legal march - this should be protected at all costs, the day we can't do that is a bad one!

If you don't like what a march is about then stay away and don't watch it.

If you go to a march, they can go very wrong - there's always a few that ruin it for the many.

My stance If I don't agree with a march is to talk about don't think it's safe, could get violent. I managed to put DB off going that way. Which to me feels an effective win! One less person went, ha.

Freedom of speech is important - your friend can say what he wants. If they don't like it, best to say nothing directed at him. They can of course express their views too. I think we lost the art of debate somewhere.

I agree with you. My friends' view is that they are concerned about immigration (which is their opinion and their right) but that doesn't automatically make them racist.

I'm also a white person and probably a lot older than you but can say categorically I have never heard views like that. I don't know where you live but I have lived in various parts of the UK and don't recognise that at all.

One of my good friends is completely the opposite on the political spectrum. We have a chat about it sometimes, but she has her beliefs, I have mine. Obviously we both think the other is wrong, but that's ok because everyone is entitled to their beliefs and as long as we are both respectful to each other, and other people (which we both are), its fine.

I'm slightly younger than you.

I heard this kind of talk from my schoolmates (who heard it from their parents).

Lucky you if you didn't have to grow up with this. Those of us who did - we don't forget those words.

Your lucky then QueenOfHiraeth.

There is a difference between "some differences" and "massive differences". If someone is a racist then that is a massive difference in my book. But real life actually often is "curated by an algorithm" - algorithms work because they are about correlations that exist in real life. For example, there is a huge correlation between racists and misogyny, and domestic violence, and abuse, and violence. Not all racists may be those things, not all racists may be all of those things. But the strong correlation is there. For example, Police data shows that 41% of 899 people arrested for taking part in the violent disorder last July and August had been reported for crimes associated with intimate partner violence. For those arrested by one police force, the figure was 68% That is not a coincidence.