As a society,are we not honest with the younger generation,about what being married and having children means to both sexes

[Bulldogautumn]

I keep seeing posts from men ,not understanding why their wife with multiple kids does not want sex...has no one explained to these men ,the responsibility that falls on women's shoulders when they gain a house a husband and kids .
And that the wife is touched out ,she's had enough,and sex can be an extra to do on her list ...When husband is not doing half of domestic shit .
For me personally,I after I had my kids ,and I remember it slowly dawning on me the amount of domestic chores that were now my responsibility..I had no idea of the amount of cleaning and cooking and shopping that would be my responsibility,with a family .
It totally overwhelmed me .I want to say to my daughter,don't get married,don't get a husband, don't have children..(but I don't )
For me personally,it felt like some huge conspiracy that no one told me about ,like I was sold a lie.
Maybe society needs to tell younger men ,that the sex they have in their 20 s , ,could be vastly different from sex in their 40s with house and kids .
And tell women ,just how much their life changes with all the added responsibility a family brings

I'm not sure we need society to tell us. I saw with my own eyes what being a wife and mother meant growing up watching my own mum (and my dad was pretty hands on)..
I knew from a young age I never wanted a husband, wasn't fussed about children. Ended up having one child which was probably right for me, never married though and glad I didn't now I'm in my 50's living life exactly how I like.

I think the narrative around motherhood has swung so far into the negative that now the widespread and loud message is about how shit motherhood is, and the drudgery involved, and how you’ll never be the same again and never be happy again and it’s all slog slog slog. That perspective is unnecessarily negative and self-fulfilling IMO. Tiresome and toxic. But I think that only lands on women’s ears somehow!

On an individual level you can find men who get it and share the load (I did!), but society-wide it seems rare.

Except people aren't one big blob that's the same and your experience will be different from someone else's.

You haven't even mustered up the 'courage' to have an honest conversation with your daughter, we have told our teen sons "if you want kids be absolutely sure who you have them with, wait at least until you are 30 get a career first" doesn't have to be alarmist just general good advice.

I think many are being told hence the current low birth rate, and it's not just about domestic chores and sex, you are assuming every man is useless and a sex pest which again just isn't true. It's about putting your needs last, all the time, both of you as parents, it's about wanting to nurture another human, see them grow, turn into a decent member of society, it's being strong whilst their little innocent hearts are breaking. It's about a lot of things, but a lot of them fulfilling and a house full of love and laughter as well.

Out of my nans 5 grandchildren only 2 have kids. I have 1 and my male cousin has 2. My nan hated motherhood and so did her 3 daughters. I think that does account for the low birth rate of the grandkids. I have 1 and no way am I going there again. I had almost full custody for 3 years and I was on my knees

Or we could educate men to take on more? I made sure any man i married would be willing and capable to cook and clean at least 50%.

yes they'd be capable but would they ? My ex was a capable person on his terms but was actually a lazy entitled bastard.

I think young women are getting the message about domestic drudgery loud and clear OP - that's why the birth rate has dropped to its lowest ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvj3j27nmro.amp

I’m sorry things have turned out that way for you. It’s not inevitable though, you speak as if this is the same for everyone. I don’t think you’ll need to tell your children as they will see the imbalance in your relationship and assume this is what adult life is for some people.

I think you need to be the change you want to see. Why are you doing all the chores? Why do you think they are only your responsibility? What changed in your relationship when you had children?

It’s not a dynamic I see in my relationship or my friends. We all work full time and in order for things to function the housework is split fairly, along with the childcare and mental load. Life is busy, but relatively easy and stress free as there is respect and no resentment.

As for sex, this could be linked to the resentment you feel about taking on all the extra responsibility. Why would you want to have sex with what is essentially another child? It doesn’t need to be this way, but I certainly wouldn’t want sex with someone who treated their family with the disrespect your husband is showing you, it’s very unattractive.

I think it’s time for change, for both your own sanity and your children’s.

I’m not sure sex is that logical. Some people in some relationships find sex relaxing and nurturing. Some people in some relationships find sex uncomfortable and invasive. Bad sex or resented sex leaves a hangover of negativity that lasts a long time. I certainly think women aren’t encouraged to identify what desire and arousal actually feel like for them, instead the social focus is on relationships or their own appearance. Not surprisingly I think a lot of women are in relationships where sex isn’t a big part of why they wanted to be there.

I have young boys. I’m very big on teaching them to consider their direct and indirect impact on other people. Feels like a good grounding for equal relationships in all aspects of life.

Your post refers to the amount of household work that is your responsibility as a wife and mother. But the point is that it is not your responsibility alone. Don’t tell your daughter about the drudgery. Teach her to not accept anything less than equality. Teach her to walk away from a partner who does not respect her. Preferably, role model a relationship based on equality and respect. Marriage, children and aging do all come with massive impacts and changes, but they aren’t all inevitable.

Women and men are raised in families, they see how the home works and surely parent teach their children about how to run a home. My kids are at an age where we have conversations about the responsibilities that come with running a home and are learning how to pitch in. I’d never tell either child not to get married or have kids - I do talk about what makes a good partner, both how they be a good partner and how they choose a good partner. While they see the work that comes with having kids, they also see how much joy and pride they bring me. The years when they are little are so short, I’d not make a decision purely based on that time being hard.

Don’t tell your daughter about the drudgery. Teach her to not accept anything less than equality. Teach her to walk away from a partner who does not respect her.

That's great advice, I've done that and it
seems to me that those men are very thin on the ground though.

My educated, very capable and career-minded adult daughters don't show any signs of having children even though I think they would both like to have children.

Added to that, housing and childcare are expensive and life is such a bloody slog these days with crap private and public services.

They're classic examples of why the birth rate is falling.

This (though I am married, also one child). Anyone remotely observant can see the impact of marriage, of childbearing etc by watching.

It doesn’t help that we’ve stopped ‘looking after’ women because it’s considered infantilising. The thread recently about offering a seat to a woman on public transport assumed there’s no difference in stamina and strength between all but the elderly.
In a world where weights on doors, the height of steps, the weight of a laptop impacts women on average more than men, even before you add in damage from childbirth/rearing, I think that’s a shame.

What about when the woman earns more? One of my DDs earns around 2 times more than her partner. Both high earners. She’s self employed but wont be doing 50/50 if they have a child. Her work is very busy. He’s going to struggle too if he gets promotion. So I guess it will be cleaners and child care!

Birth rate - cost of dc. Loss of earnings are a big factor. No one can afford them unless they have free child care and family money.

It's definitely a narrative problem that a lot of young women are aware of.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything positive said about parenthood from both sides. All you hear is a stark warning to never do it.

Encourage very to get married sure but who knows if she can even have children. No point warning her as if it's a certainty. You can be very happy with your spouse with lots of holidays!

I don’t recognise what you are talking about op, I liked being a mother to little ones, teenagers were ok and I miss them now they have left. I wish I’d met my second husband younger so we could have had more, he’s an amazing dad (also adult kids)

A lot of the 'exhaustion' is self imposed.

No, children don't need to be entertained 24/7. They can also be brought up to be more independent and helping around the house.

No, the house doesn't need to be a show house, and many tasks can be organised to fit around the rest.

Division of responsibilities SHOULD be discussed BEFORE having children.

What I'll tell my son is to be prepared that some women see sex as an act of procreation only and once the kids are there, they lose all interest but will blame their husband to avoid the sense of guilt.

I don't think "society" needs to be telling anyone anything. Surely children growing up see how their parents do things and learn from that. So it's up to BOTH parents to teach their children how to be good partners / parents in turn. No woman should put up with being a martyr to her children and / or home. I took it upon myself to create the understanding of what a solid, equal partnership meant to me before I even got engaged, nevermind married with children and I stuck to it. My husband is an amazing man, absolutely 50/50 on any childcare or chore that needs doing when he's around. I do do most of the housework as I'm a SAHM, so as such it's my job as I have the time, but as soon as he walks in the door, we just do whatever needs doing between us depending on who is free.

I am responsible for my own equality and happiness. I get sad and cross when I read that women have basically backed themselves into a corner with childcare and housework and just complain about their lazy arse of a bloke and then kind of passively dismiss it as "he's always been like that, never changed a nappy or lifted a finger with the washing / cleaning / cooking..." Well, why not? The first time he decided it wasn't his job was the time to sit down and get things ironed out. Not 20 years later as he wasn't going to change if you've just moaned under your breath and been resentful he never thought to do X, Y or Z. YES, he absoutely should have done whatever of his own accord, but I see so many women say they ended up doing this, that or the other because the bloke didn't get round to it, or did it badly so it was "easier" to do it themselves. Maybe in the short term but the long run, no, it's NOT! It's the same with parents who don't teach their children how to do chores for themselves when they are little so bring up entitled, lazy brats who can't live in the real world. 50% of them are the men that are now being complained about... Yes, it's up to dad's to teach their son's to be good husbands and fathers, but it's also 50% up to the mothers too. If a bloke is rubbish, then it's 50/50 on the blame front! That useless bloke might have had a useless dad, but by that same token he also had a useless mum. Don't like the way your life is going but can't change it? Make sure that you teach your child not to follow your path.

Start early with your own kids and don't blame "society".

I had the reverse. My parents were incredibly negative about parenthood, marriage and so on and divorced. I always felt very loved but very much like i'd made thier lives very hard.

Anyway I had children, it was exhausting (not self imposed! I found pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding tiring in its own right), but i also found it rewarding, fun, interesting. Noone had mentioned those parts to me at all. I seem to still like my husband, its not all plain sailing, but the model I was given was much worse.

While one half of humanity is condemned to bear in pain and degradation the children of all humanity parenting will never be an equal responsibility. Instead of spending fortunes on making smaller/faster phones we need to concentrate our science to making it possible for children to be nurtured outside the womb for those couples who choose it.. One day parents will visit the birthing center, deposit their eggs or sperm, and make a few basic choices about sex, physical characteristics etc. They will go back 9 months later to pick up the child like it was their weekly shop from Tesco. Neither one will feel like they have a "natural" duty to be the carer, as women currently do now. Both will share the responsibility equally.

Brave new world? Why not.

I'm sorry that this is your experience but just because it is your experience doesn't mean it will be your daughter's or anyone else's. I've found since being a mum my life has changed for the positive. I actually enjoy the domesticity but my husband also does his share of the childcare and housework. Perhaps you should encourage her to meet someone who will treat her as an equal to have children with?

I think part of the problem with many of these issues is that women are discussing it all the time and have analysed, quantified, commiserate, share stories etc…

… but that happy in all-female communities. So the men are none the wiser.

Eg ‘we have just had a baby, why is my husband so hopeless and not helping’ posts (common issue) - I think women are on here and other social platforms, messaging friends etc and getting the same frustrated feedback.

Meanwhile… I don’t think the dads see any of that, or that lots of couples have this issue.

I don’t know how that communication channel is improved in a non-confrontational way…!

More fool you for taking on a disproportionate amount of work. A marriage should be shared workload, however that works for you.

I think having children isn’t the problem. People can see with their own eyes the work that comes with having children.

I think the lies we are told is about marriage. If I had my time again I would focus on my career and have a child via sperm Donation.

I wouldn’t feel internal upset if my child was pregnant in the future, but I think I would if she wanted to marry a man, I think men are the source of so many women’s pain.