Thread 29 Starmer - Paint your Bandwagon

[DuncinToffee]

And do a little rain dance

previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5385382-thread-28-starmer-weodmonath?page=40&reply=146569893

I think Farage’s policy will be extremely popular.

Yes it will mean a lot of legal changes. But actually the reality is that changing things legally is not difficult in the UK. We don’t have a written constitution to stop certain changes, or prevent withdrawal from international conventions.

The issue has been that the UK has generally been the promoter of legal certainty and supported international law. But it does not have to.

Point one; withdraw from the ECHR. Now if you are liberal and think everyone has the same rights, then you see a lot of risk in it. If you don’t, then the ECHR is going to stop you deporting people without notice. Or having nationality based policies.

It also means pretty much all of the equalities legislation and initiatives bars on it would have no legal basis at all. This is in part what is meant by free speech or freedom of action. Police racist to you? Tough shit.

Yes this policy is the gateway to dismantling the Human Rights Act, Equality Act etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqnjqgp719o

Gazan students granted approval to study in UK

"It also means pretty much all of the equalities legislation and initiatives bars on it would have no legal basis at all. This is in part what is meant by free speech or freedom of action. Police racist to you? Tough shit.
Yes this policy is the gateway to dismantling the Human Rights Act, Equality Act etc."

This where Lowe and Farage's visions overlap - turn back the legislative clock to 1987 - dismantling equalities protections and everything that came with that.

Remember that pulling out of the ECHR will contravene the Good Friday Agreement. Unless Northern Ireland is exempted. Which leads to the obvious situation that many people may go to Northern Ireland to enjoy those protections.

With the US now a de facto absolute monarchy, it's hard to see the US honouring it's guarantees of the GFA.

It's looking very likely that our grandchildren will grow up with a very different map of Europe. In much the same way our great(?)-grandparents knew a completely different map to us.

Reform voters and many voters of other persuasion don't give a shiny shit about NI.

Not only the GFA, post Brexit UK/EU co-opereations rely on the ECHR.

Good luck stopping the boats without an agreement with France

France not co-operating with a unilaterally altered agreement is precisely the stuff Farage thrives on. Bloody Frenchies etc.

Telegraph

Farage prepared to pay Taliban to take back migrants

Unless Northern Ireland is exempted. Which leads to the obvious situation that many people may go to Northern Ireland to enjoy those protections.

I think we’d seriously consider it. My bloke was born in Belfast and we thought about retiring there. A Reform government might well give us the impetus to go.

So we will fund the even greater persecution of women and minorities and even overseas terrorism....

Nice one Nige

Its an open goal for Labour to kick back on, remind the public who the Taliban are, 9/11, killing uk soldiers etc etc.... so i don't expect them to to do it!

I wonder how many Loyalists in NI would leave to return to a ECHR-less Britain ?

Fuck all I bet.

But it's all about protecting women...

Trump and Tate agree

I’d put a lot of money on it.

I read a short story once where two bitterly opposed fighters would rather throw diamonds at each other then combine and share the booty,

What happened to "British pounds for British people" Nigel ?

It's a sort of "AI" solution. If you demonstrate that you will return all and any (brown) people entering the UK straight back to the inhuman regime they are fleeing - conveniently in handcuffs and on a flight - then pretty soon there ain't gonna be no people rushing to get to your country.

You can imagine the chain reaction that could set off elsewhere.

The "sudden" rise in right wing sentiment that seems to be surprising some is proving useful in weeding out the other side of the aisle ignorati. It's been warned about and documented for the past 15 years. Where the hell have you been living ? Presumably Calm Down Dear Court ?

I don’t think the GFA is the gotcha that some seem to think. TBH, given what Farage is talking about, it seems highly unlikely that the GFA will be honoured. So what’s one more breached international agreement?

International law works on reciprocity- basically everyone agrees to abide. You can’t enforce it. And if one country withdraws from an agreement, there is very little that can be done. You might get some stern representations.

Btw those loyalists might like this new British Bill of Rights. Might not be so good if you weren’t British of course.

Yes exactly. He will love it. It is one of those excuses he will have to pass these extreme measures.

Well once you break one international agreement, the die is cast.

I am reminded of the run up to the Ukraine invasion where it seemed bleeding obvious what was going to happen, and yet a lot of people seemed shocked when it did. Which worryingly is pretty much a re run of how appeasement went back in 1914 and 1938.

That's not going to be possible in a sovereign country, where the head is a King or Queen. All laws and justice are via King's Council now.

I'd go further back to the Reformation, which didn't end well.

We shouldn’t take comfort from the idea of common law. I noticed Grieve running this argument to say why Farage couldn’t manage what he claimed. But honestly Parliament is supreme. If Parliament legislates, and overrides common law application, then the judiciary are bound to follow it.

I doubt that we’d get elected judges or similar in the UK, but what we can easily have is a judiciary that applies the law as it stands. At the moment, it’s liberal. But it does not have to be.

Yes, I agree, Labour need to be bold, it is an open goal, don't go down the imitation Reform route.

The country can only become a republic for common law to take precedent. As it stands the UK has an unwritten constitution, it's incredibly complex but still the monarch is the fountain of justice.

I dont why people dont think Parliament couldn't amend the Constitutional Reform Act to tinker with the appointment procedure of the SC judges.
Or perhaps to allow the Government to veto appointments of judges likely to be liberal.

Most people dont understand how judges are appointed in the first place, or indeed how they perform their role. Altering the current system to benefit the government of the day wouldnt be a hard sell given how the media portrays them.

This is legally meaningless! All of the authorities on the meaning of the law makes it clear that Parliament is the supreme law maker. The King must accede to the will of Parliament.

This matter was thoroughly adjudicated and resolved by chopping someone’s head off.