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Lucy Letby: have you changed your mind - thread 3

983 replies

Typicalwave · 19/08/2025 18:43

New thread for those following or wishing to comment - originally started by @kittybythelighthouse.

OP posts:
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kkloo · 28/08/2025 20:43

I haven't seen the updated version, had to watch the original online somewhere because I don't have BBC, and I don't think the updated version is there, but I did read that the scene after the updated bit stayed in place, which showed them reacting to the original stats and how they didn't look good for her because he had been speaking to someone who understood the data and asked how bad would she have had to have been as a nurse in order for that to happen accidentally and the answer was "spectacularly bad, so either she was spectacularly bad or acting maliciously."

Is that correct that that scene still follows the updated stats?

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:43

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 20:39

“It only looks like she had a bad defence because NOTHING could've helped her.”

It sounds like you’re trotting out an old argument from last year. This one no longer works given we now know that, to the extreme contrary, eminent experts who hold senior positions in the world’s best research and teaching hospitals have looked at everything the prosecution looked at (and indeed Dr Hall) and concluded that there were no murders at all. So now what?

Like I said before, you can find experts to say anything. If you want opioids you can find a crooked doctor to give you them (maybe not in the UK but internationally...) if you want to find a different opinion to the consensus you don't think asking enough experts and scouring the globe will get you them eventually?

The trial had Dr Evans, Sandie Bohin and another expert that sadly died before trial that also agreed with Evans. I'm sure if you kept going until you got to expert number 50 you might eventually find someone to disagree with them though...

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 20:43

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:26

It’s really interesting to me that you still do not see how (or apparently even where) you have also been strong in your words, if not more so. Here’s a clue: I wasn’t talking about the expert panel.

@Kittybythelighthouse I was going to ask you to spell it out as I literally had no idea who you were talking about as I can't recall having strong words about anyone involved in the case except the serial killer. Thanks to a PP I was able to decipher you were in fact talking about the serial killer 🙄she's the ONLY person anyone on here is concerned about. This thread gets crazier by the day.

You just keep proving that you find it extraordinarily difficult to actually engage in a grown up discussion here. Even if you think I’m the world’s biggest idiot you should be able to understand that I do not start from the same position that you do. It’s a fundamental necessity of debate (and human empathy as it happens) to be able to do so. Everything is impossible if you can’t do that. It’s one of the biggest reasons why we keep going round in circles.

kkloo · 28/08/2025 20:46

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:43

Like I said before, you can find experts to say anything. If you want opioids you can find a crooked doctor to give you them (maybe not in the UK but internationally...) if you want to find a different opinion to the consensus you don't think asking enough experts and scouring the globe will get you them eventually?

The trial had Dr Evans, Sandie Bohin and another expert that sadly died before trial that also agreed with Evans. I'm sure if you kept going until you got to expert number 50 you might eventually find someone to disagree with them though...

Exactly, in this case they got a couple of experts to say that all these babies were murdered or deliberately harmed even though there was no evidence of that.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 20:48

kkloo · 28/08/2025 20:43

I haven't seen the updated version, had to watch the original online somewhere because I don't have BBC, and I don't think the updated version is there, but I did read that the scene after the updated bit stayed in place, which showed them reacting to the original stats and how they didn't look good for her because he had been speaking to someone who understood the data and asked how bad would she have had to have been as a nurse in order for that to happen accidentally and the answer was "spectacularly bad, so either she was spectacularly bad or acting maliciously."

Is that correct that that scene still follows the updated stats?

Edited

I don't know unfortunately as I only watch things on my laptop these days. Perhaps someone else can confirm?

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:48

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 20:27

They needed an alternative to direct injection because:

A: There were no puncture wounds from injection.
B: Letby wasn’t actually there.

Or they could just tell by the evidence! Just what are you accusing them of? She hung the first bag in one of the cases. Not sure which one you were talking about because there were two (and another that wasn't taken to trial) baby F is where the first bag was hung by LL IIRC.

kkloo · 28/08/2025 20:56

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 20:48

I don't know unfortunately as I only watch things on my laptop these days. Perhaps someone else can confirm?

Ah I did manage to find the version with the corrected segment, and yes they still follow it with the other person 'who knows about stats' reaction to what they had shown in the first version!!

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 20:56

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:43

Like I said before, you can find experts to say anything. If you want opioids you can find a crooked doctor to give you them (maybe not in the UK but internationally...) if you want to find a different opinion to the consensus you don't think asking enough experts and scouring the globe will get you them eventually?

The trial had Dr Evans, Sandie Bohin and another expert that sadly died before trial that also agreed with Evans. I'm sure if you kept going until you got to expert number 50 you might eventually find someone to disagree with them though...

“if you want to find a different opinion to the consensus you don't think asking enough experts and scouring the globe will get you them eventually?”

You can “scour the globe” all you want, but you absolutely could not get a panel like this to be experts for you. Do you have any idea how expensive it would be, for a start? As I’ve said before, and as is well known, in the UK there is a serious issue with the EW system. Expert witnesses here tend to be retired, out of the game, and also never that great to begin with. Why? Because the best experts (which these number amongst) do not want to fool about with trials when they have important frontline research to be getting on with and actual important work to do (life and death in the case of medics). Trials can be every long. Preparation alone can take months or years. Experts of this calibre simply are not hireable as experts witnesses and if they were they would be vastly out of reach in terms of cost. LL is not a millionaire and she would need to be. That’s why they are working pro bono.

“The trial had Dr Evans, Sandie Bohin and another expert that sadly died before trial that also agreed with Evans.”

First of all, how embarrassing for the CPS. It’s like bringing fish fingers to a sword fight.

Secondly, do you know who that expert who died was? I wouldn’t be so proud of his involvement if I was you.

“I'm sure if you kept going until you got to expert number 50 you might eventually find someone to disagree with them though...”

What on earth are you talking about? Have you forgotten within the space of a comment that the defence already have plenty of experts, of a vastly superior standard, to disagree with them?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 20:58

kkloo · 28/08/2025 20:56

Ah I did manage to find the version with the corrected segment, and yes they still follow it with the other person 'who knows about stats' reaction to what they had shown in the first version!!

Edited

Oh that's disappointing - they should have nixed that bit as well.

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:59

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 20:43

You just keep proving that you find it extraordinarily difficult to actually engage in a grown up discussion here. Even if you think I’m the world’s biggest idiot you should be able to understand that I do not start from the same position that you do. It’s a fundamental necessity of debate (and human empathy as it happens) to be able to do so. Everything is impossible if you can’t do that. It’s one of the biggest reasons why we keep going round in circles.

Even if you think I’m the world’s biggest idiot you should be able to understand that I do not start from the same position that you do.

I'm not sure why you don't think I understand that 😆I think calling a convicted serial killer evil is par for the course. If you're going to argue for their innocence it's just something to get used to tbh. Am I supposed to be nice about all convicted serial killers from now on in the infinitely small possibility they get released on a MoJ one day. I'll formally apologise to her for calling her evil if she's ever released, how's that? 😆

I think you're highly intelligent, but like lots of very intellectual people, you're only EVER about the science and what you think you can debunk. Like it or not, that wasn't all the case was about. And everything I've brought as evidence has been dismissed and laughed at by you and everyone else, which isn't exactly arguing in good faith either.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 20:59

And thank you for the links @kkloo 😊

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 21:00

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:48

Or they could just tell by the evidence! Just what are you accusing them of? She hung the first bag in one of the cases. Not sure which one you were talking about because there were two (and another that wasn't taken to trial) baby F is where the first bag was hung by LL IIRC.

“Or they could just tell by the evidence!”

No puncture wounds is evidence?

”Just what are you accusing them of?”

I’m not “accusing” them of anything. I’m simply stating facts. Do you feel that this makes them look bad? Interesting.

kkloo · 28/08/2025 21:04

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:59

Even if you think I’m the world’s biggest idiot you should be able to understand that I do not start from the same position that you do.

I'm not sure why you don't think I understand that 😆I think calling a convicted serial killer evil is par for the course. If you're going to argue for their innocence it's just something to get used to tbh. Am I supposed to be nice about all convicted serial killers from now on in the infinitely small possibility they get released on a MoJ one day. I'll formally apologise to her for calling her evil if she's ever released, how's that? 😆

I think you're highly intelligent, but like lots of very intellectual people, you're only EVER about the science and what you think you can debunk. Like it or not, that wasn't all the case was about. And everything I've brought as evidence has been dismissed and laughed at by you and everyone else, which isn't exactly arguing in good faith either.

you're only EVER about the science and what you think you can debunk. Like it or not, that wasn't all the case was about.

Exactly, it should have been about the science though, which is the point that you're missing. And it's why there's a very real chance that this verdict may be found to be unsafe, because they will debunk the 'science' presented.

Typicalwave · 28/08/2025 21:05

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:01

You guys are mad about what I'm calling the convicted baby killer? Seriously? I need to screenshot this madness for posterity.

It’s interesting that you attribute emotion to simple statements of fact.

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 21:07

CheeseNPickle3 · 28/08/2025 02:12

That's interesting.

I'm assuming it means you give no weight at all to the possibility that the common factor in the deaths/collapses was the standard of care and the environment at the hospital, as suggested by the new expert panel?

To answer for myself - with current knowledge there's no way I'd give birth or allow my (hypothetical) twins to be cared for at that hospital at that time, even if Lucy Letby wasn't there.

No these babies collapsed suddenly out of nowhere, most were stable and were far from expected to die. Things like that just don't happen because there is a very clear decline with neonates (according to the experts) they don't just collapse unexpectedly. The hospital wasn't great but what was going on there for that year was wildly out of the norm. They expected something like 2-3 deaths a year prior to this, then it was suddenly that many in just a month!

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 21:07

On a side note, we're on page 39. If anyone is up for thread 4 I'm in.

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 21:07

”And everything I've brought as evidence has been dismissed and laughed at by you and everyone else.”

@Firefly1987 well now I feel bad. You’ve been a good sport and quite friendly to me given you think I’m a baby killer fan 🤩 (joking, joking)

In all seriousness I hope it hasn’t seemed like I’ve been laughing at you. I honestly haven’t meant to. I think it’s important that both sides can discuss things like this like grownups without mud slinging, which we’ve managed for the most part. I’ve grown fond of you over the course of our chats. Don’t fall out with me now!

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 21:08

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 21:07

On a side note, we're on page 39. If anyone is up for thread 4 I'm in.

Do you wish to do the honours?

Typicalwave · 28/08/2025 21:08

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 20:26

It’s really interesting to me that you still do not see how (or apparently even where) you have also been strong in your words, if not more so. Here’s a clue: I wasn’t talking about the expert panel.

@Kittybythelighthouse I was going to ask you to spell it out as I literally had no idea who you were talking about as I can't recall having strong words about anyone involved in the case except the serial killer. Thanks to a PP I was able to decipher you were in fact talking about the serial killer 🙄she's the ONLY person anyone on here is concerned about. This thread gets crazier by the day.

Nope.

Im concerned about the truth.

That’s it.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 21:10

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 21:07

No these babies collapsed suddenly out of nowhere, most were stable and were far from expected to die. Things like that just don't happen because there is a very clear decline with neonates (according to the experts) they don't just collapse unexpectedly. The hospital wasn't great but what was going on there for that year was wildly out of the norm. They expected something like 2-3 deaths a year prior to this, then it was suddenly that many in just a month!

This all depends on which "experts" you go by, and it's clear the consultants were nowhere near "expert" level, and had a tendency to minimise concerns about the babies, and delay or fluff treatment / responses to said concerns.

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 21:12

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 21:00

“Or they could just tell by the evidence!”

No puncture wounds is evidence?

”Just what are you accusing them of?”

I’m not “accusing” them of anything. I’m simply stating facts. Do you feel that this makes them look bad? Interesting.

No puncture wounds is evidence?

They don't have the bag/s so how does anyone know? The evidence that the insulin had to have been infused gradually so it couldn't be anything BUT in the bag.

Well obviously your insinuation is they set Lucy up? What else could you mean?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 21:13

Kittybythelighthouse · 28/08/2025 21:08

Do you wish to do the honours?

Can do 😊

Typicalwave · 28/08/2025 21:19

Firefly1987 · 28/08/2025 21:12

No puncture wounds is evidence?

They don't have the bag/s so how does anyone know? The evidence that the insulin had to have been infused gradually so it couldn't be anything BUT in the bag.

Well obviously your insinuation is they set Lucy up? What else could you mean?

What has led you to belueve @Kittybythelighthouseis insinuating a set up?

would you mind answering my questions from earlier today whrn you have a sec

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 28/08/2025 21:24

Well I've done it but it think I've messed up the tagging - apologies!!

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