Ozzy Osbourne - we shouldn't speak ill of the dead but has his domestic abuse and serial infidelity been glossed over in all the eulogies?

[mids2019]

Maybe because he was a rocker firm the 70s but it seems Ozzy's real character flaws have been warped into a 'charismatic hell raiser ' image to be admired.

In reality should we also be critical about his actions and views?

The absolutely can if you are able to separate the two different people involved. The sober person and the addict.

Nope. This happens with non rich and famous people too. Families often will gloss over the terrible parts of someone after they are dead.

The re-branding of Ozzy was obvious with the reality show. Not sure what the purpose was, but it was definitely a success for those who had little knowledge of him previously.

No doubt Jack said that because his father wasn't present during addiction. This is my entire point.

Is divorce considered abandonment now?

I think we certainly have different ideas about how he could be a family man whilst sober, yet an adulterous absentee father during addiction.

But I have already covered that in my first comment.

Exactly. No one is going to their deathbed a saint!

@user1476613140 most people don’t try and strangle their partner and kill their pets

Is there any behaviour that you wouldn’t excuse “cos of drugs”? What about rape and child abuse? Or is it just wife beating and animal cruelty that “don’t make him a bad person”?

@GreenGully divorcing your partner doesn’t mean you automatically have nothing to do with children you had with that partner. If you do that it makes you a shit and certainly not a family man. How will they feel if everybody celebrates what a great family man he was.

How many threads on MN are there where posters recollect how their childhood was ruined by having an alcoholic parent etc

Jesus, mumsnet really is low sometimes. The lack of respect is utterly vile sometimes.

The man died on Tuesday. He's barely cold, and he has been compared to Jimmy Saville and Ian Watkins from Lost Prophets and here comes a thread tearing him apart, only Sharon and Ozzy know what they're marriage was like, I'm sure Sharon doesn't want mumsnetters pity either.

You do realise not all his family are famous, not all of them are the Osbornes. He has a sister for one thing, nephews and nieces, none of whom are famous. They could read these threads, they could read all the bloody posts on social media pulling apart a man they loved, a deeply flawed man but one they loved. Show them some respect even if you can't show Ozzy some.

Also go read up on his childhood, that might educate some of the righteous on here on what happened to him growing up.

I'm not sure why he's treated as a hero, being a 'rocker' doesnt excuse wife beating and animal cruelty. Then there's the Israel support.

Not sure why you are using quotations marks on things I haven't said.

You are creating a strawman argument.

Was Ozzy a paedo rapist? No.

I find the MSM reaction to Ozzys passing really interesting as is the reaction of the people who aren’t part of the heavy metal community. They just don’t get it.

Generally that community is about the music, the lifestyle of the fans and the family that is the HM community.

Science has repeatedly shown that HM fans are some of the most intelligent (although there’s a chicken and egg argument about it), are the happiest and kindest fanbase, are the most loyal fans, they’re certainly erudite for the most part. HM lyrics are the most lyrically intelligent as a whole. People are generally chilled, accepting and forgiving. Many have very different perspectives on the world. People outside that community whether through prejudice, fear or just lack of understanding rarely “get it” A few weeks ago news circulated that a well known HM journalist was ill and he needed financial help. Within a few days £25,000 had been raised by fans.. if a long term fan is struggling to afford a ticket, it won’t be long before someone offers them one. It’s a community, it’s family. And just like any family members have their ups and downs but largely we forgive and forget, esp when people change. I can only think of one crime where a person would be permanently rejected by all.

Did everyone in the HM community know Ozzy did some bad things 40 plus years ago? Sure. But we’ve had 40 odd years of seeing Ozzy change to the point PETA have commented on his wonderful work on animal welfare. We know that HM and all the bands we love probably wouldn’t exist without Ozzy and Sabbath. We know he created, over the course of 7 decades, some amazing music that has been integral to our lives from teenagers to retirement (for some). It is part of who we are. That is what people are mourning. it’s a death of part of their lives, the death of something that’s shaped their lives. It’s the soundtrack of Friday nights hiding under bedclothes listening to Tommy Vance playing songs that took us away from the ostracisation we might have felt as teenagers (metalheads rarely fitted in at school). It’s the soundtrack of finding out first boyfriends/girlfriends and life partners, it’s the soundtrack of finding friends that finally got us and where we suddenly breathed with relief at finding home.

People outside that community might not get it, they might suddenly be horrified at what a man in his 70s did in his 20s because it’s new. They read headlines and don’t see the full picture. To us, for all his faults, Ozzy was family. We’ve lost one of our own.

But to us, people who reject the celebrity culture, who accept people change and value the impact music and its creators we value Ozzy for the impact he had on our lives. God bless you Ozzy - seems you’re still annoying the haters, the poseurs, the soundbite morons, the unbelievers from beyond the grave, and for that, we salute you.

Where is this science? @MyHeartyCoralSnail

Of course divorce doesn't mean automatically abandoning children. That was my point. But as pp are throwing around the abandonment word (without evidence) I have simply pointed out all we know of his first relationship is that they divorced due to his alcoholism.

'How many threads on MN are there where posters recollect how their childhood was ruined by having an alcoholic parent etc.' I agree. For all we know they wanted nothing to do with him because he was an addict. Was he financially supporting the family? Did he simply not see them for 15 years? Who knows.

Nobody can confidently make the claim of abandonment because none of us know the full story.

I’m sure they are all sitting around reading Mumsnet.

I’m also sure they knew who he was and what he did. Hearing people be critical of him won’t exactly be new to them. I actually find describing someone who has died as “barely cold” would be more upsetting for me to read than someone talking about a past history I was well aware of.

I don't see wife beater and animal torturer as being that different tbf. Surely if he is not responsible for his heinous acts due to drugs, he could have done anything at all and it would be excused by you. I was just wondering if you did have a line though.
As for the people making arguments that he did so much for charity, erm year well for a start he was extremely rich so its not that big a deal or impressive (and was probably done to make himself look good) and second, one particularly vile abuser mentioned on this thread probably did more for charity than anyone else during his life. Yet he was absolutely abhorrent.

@GreenGully but you can’t call him a family man though

@BoredZelda I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to do your own research but for starters:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/a-new-study-claims-to-show-who-are-the-most-intelligent-heavy-metal-bands

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2007/mar/21/whymetalfansarebrainier

https://www.vintageheavymetal.com/article/heavy-metal-positive-psychology/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jun/22/listening-heavy-metal-punk-extreme-music-makes-you-calmer-not-angrier-study

the above articles reference and link to some of the studies. I could go on but you get the gist.

Enjoy, happy to point you in the right direction if you need anything else.

Can I ask what your particular interest is in this?

I'll repeat my post to MyHeartyCoralSnail that I posted on the other thread:
"Sorry but I agree with them and I find your comments disgusting. He showed absolutely no remorse at all whatsoever, so no, he didn't change. You don't show a pattern of animal abuse over decades, and when interviewed about one of the incidents, be flippant and half laugh about it as he did - the murdering of his and Sharon's cats, and change. If he had changed he would have shown remorse. He showed absolutely none.

Your comments, fawning over a celeb because he screamed 'music' and showed zero remorse for his actions, are disgusting imo. It's celebrity hero worship over humanity.

That poster asked you earlier in the thread where you line would be, if it would be child molestation? You never answered. Would you ignore Osborne sexually abusing a child, too? Genuine question.

Forgot to add that I don't consider PETA, given the controversies they've been involved in such as mass killing of animals at one of their shelters, an ethical animal organisation. And I doubt they knew all of the animal abuse he was involved in stretching back decades right from when he was a teenager."

Where I draw the line is non of your concern. I don't believe I have stated that someone shouldn't be held responsible for their actions because they were on drugs either. Of course they should be. I have simply pointed out a person can be both good and bad particularly if they have an addiction.

It was for Sharon to hold him responsible and she decided to stay with him. That has nothing to do with any of us. I find it amusing that people are online getting mad about the actions of a dead man during the depths of addiction, when his own family forgave him.

Can't say I am overly surprised because MN does seem to be inhabited by a whole lot of self righteous holier than thou nuns.

During sobriety he was. During addiction he was not. You see being human isn't that black and white.

Also, I can call him whatever the hell I like.

Sorry, I don’t think I’ve interacted with you on a previous thread, you might find the answer to your question a couple of posts up.

I would point you to the case of the Lost Prophets singer to see how the metal community reacts to that kind of crime.

I hope you find a way to learn to forgive things where people have changed.

You comment about “screaming music” suggests you have no respect for the genre and are most likely annoyed by the love that is being shown and and are probably taking a soundbite to try and put the boot in Out of interest which animal rights organisation do you value?

interestingly, many heavy metal singers are praised on their capability, technique and range from a variety of professional classical and opera singers and musicians.

You response is very interesting, and actually feeds into a well established pattern when it comes to vilifying HM - you should look up the Satanic Panic of the 80s

You got all that from my post? It sounds quite unhinged. And no, there was no answer. I've read both threads thoroughly, you've side-stepped answering any of these questions put to you. And I don't want a reference to Lost Prophets or anyone else. I am interested in your view, in your own words. Is there any reason why you refuse to give it?

You seem extraordinarily aggressive.,Why is that?

What questions have I “side stepped” of course I would condemn child abuse.

Just a little word of advice. If you tried speaking less aggressively and more respectfully to other people you might get a more productive response.

You're really not coming over very well tbh and, therefore, any point.you are trying to make is being lost.

Oh that makes me sad. I remember his first wife from antenatal classes. She seemed very glamorous to me, I was a teenager and she was an adult. His daughter was born a few weeks after my son.

Oh give over with all the “we” crap. No one elected you spokesperson for the HM community 🙄If you want to give your own personal views then own them, don’t pretend everyone feels the same way.