Advised to get married whilst doing wills

[mustytrusty]

Went to a solicitor with DP today to arrange our wills. We have mortgage, two dc's and been together 23 years. Have been advised that for tax reasons we should think about getting married.

I have no desire to be married. Not to him or anyone else, and I never have wanted to be.

Does anyone know if there's a campaign to make the tax situation for long-term couples
mirror that of married couples?

Boggles my mind that in this day and age unmarried couples can be treated differently than married.

If the law treated a mortgage as a de facto marriage certificate, it would discriminate against couples who rent.

Having children with someone doesn't prove you're still together. If you two split up, you will still be your children's parents.

It's a contract. It's written on paper because... what else would contracts be written on? Men came up with "marriage is just a piece of paper" so they could string along women they didn't want to commit to.

I got married purely for tax purposes/ next of kin last month. You can do a very simple registry office ceremony for around £60 where its just the two of you and 2 witnesses and its just the legal part. You can also do a civil partnership if you prefer.

We ended up getting carried away and had 8 guests as they didn't have any £60 ceremonies for months. I got a dress from ebay, then decided I needed a cake and bouquet so I made those. We had a dinner party at home and it was lovely.

I actually know 2 women whose very long term partners died recently. In both cases the family of the partner really stuck the knife in with absolutely no warning at all and both women have suffered terribly as a result. Had they been married to their partners it couldn't have happened.

You (general 'you') can get a joint mortgage with a friend or a sibling.

I like my friends, but not enough to marry any of them, and marriage to a sibling is illegal.

Men came up with "marriage is just a piece of paper" so they could string along women they didn't want to commit to.

So much this. Many people who positively don’t want to get married take that view because of the rights attached. I once saw an article where someone worked out how many separate documents / contracts / agreements it was necessary to have to match a marriage licence and the cost of doing so (I think it was in the context of gay marriage). It was multiple thousands of pounds and multiple documents (I think over 10 though it was a long time ago).

Marriage is absolutely not just ‘a piece of paper’. I have no issue with people who choose not to marry because they don’t want the rights / obligations but a lot of people (usually women) are tricked into thinking it doesn’t matter and in E&W at least, it absolutely does.

Because it’s more complicated to opt out of sharing your assets and legal obligations with someone than to consciously and jointly opt in through a binding jointly consensual legal process.

It would be good if there was a podcast or you tube video spelling all the pros / cons / legal things for considerations

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/merryn-talks-money/id1654809850?i=1000679995745

Solicitor can’t win if they hadn’t said this and one of you dropped dead and the survivor had to sell the house to pay the tax the survivor would be quick to complain “why didn’t you tell us “!

Pretty much every unmarried couple I’ve advised has got married or CP and the ones that haven’t have regretted it.

Not right for everyone if you have your own kids from earlier relationships you give the spouse rights to make a claim if you marry so it’s not the best option for everyone.

God. Another one. It is not just a piece of paper. It is a very important piece of paper. You'll have to choose what's more important to you.

No such thing as coomon-law-marriage. Can't believe some people still think there is. There never was in reality.

Marriage is a financial and legal contracted partnership.

As such they are deemed to own stuff within the couple so can’t ‘inherit’ from each other.

I very much do not want long term partners treated the same as people who entered into a legal partnership: I am glad my long term partner was not entitled to half my house when we split.

You can each leave your half of the house / your assets direct to the kids and keep a total of £1m between you IHT free.

Haven’t read all the comments but the solicitor probably mentioned it for IHT reasons. I’m a trainee solicitor in wills and probate. If you’re married, gifts to your spouse are exempt from tax. You also get the benefit of the transferable nil rate band if everything passes to the spouse on first death. Of course you don’t have to but it’s their duty to tell you any implications. If you choose not to get married, make sure the wills are made in contemplation of marriage, otherwise they would be revoked on marriage and the intestacy rules would apply.

No but the link between marriage and sex means that you can't marry a close relative.

There is some argument that some of the benefits of marriage should be open to people in settled relationships that aren't sexual.

For example we had family friends, twin brothers, neither ever married or had children, they lived together their whole lives. One provided care to the other following a stroke. They shared bills and finances, shared household chores, shared a car, commuted to work together, ate together, holidayed together and socialised together. Absolutely inseparable for around 80 years, but no nil rate band to allow one to pass his assets to the other despite those assets being built in partnership. They planned their finances well but it could easily have resulted in one losing his home to pay a tax bill.

"I'm still interested to know why having a piece of paper trumps having a joint mortgage and shared children though."

The 'piece of paper' is a legal contract committing to each other. Easily demonstrating that commitment to the rest of the world, including HMRC. And certain formalities are required to end that contract.

Any two people can take out a mortgage and are not necessarily committed to each other - just to paying the mortgage.

Shared children can arise from a one night stand. Are they obliged to share finances for the rest of their lives? I know someone who has 8 children to 8 different fathers. Does she have a financial commitment with all of them? How would they demonstrate the relationship to, say, HMRC.

Married couples can inherit from each other with no inheritance tax - it's paid when the second dies on the estate as it stands then. If an unmarried partner dies and leaves everything to the other partner inheritance tax has to be paid on his/her estate. When the second person dies inheritance tax has to be paid on the whole estate, including the inherited part which has already been subject to IHT. (Assuming over the nil rate level in both cases)

A simple basic wedding or civil partnership currently costs £56 + £12.50 for a certificate and £42 each for the Notices - £152.50 for peace of mind

If you want the legal protection of marriage then get married (or civil partnered). It should be a choice, not a default for happening to be together for x number of years or whatever criteria you think should make you a ‘legitimate’ couple.

Thanks this was really interesting!

You can have a civil partnership instead of a marriage.
a friend of mine used to bleat on like this about how she should have the same rights as a married couple. Would not be told that the law is there for a reason. She had awful problems dealing with the estate when her partner died - not being married made a difficult time so much worse. It took her the best part of a year to get his pension rights. If you want the protection of the law, you need to either marry or get a civil partnership.

I think an awful lot of people don't actually know what marriage is. It's not a big party, a white dress or "a piece of paper".

If you want the protections and legal status that marriage is designed to give you, then get married. It's a legal contract that people should actively choose to enter, and not be entered by stealth. Some people truly don't want to be married (there are good reasons for this, especially in terms of protecting inheritance for existing children) and they need to be able to stay unmarried forever if they want to rather than have it conferred upon them.

You don't need to wear a ring, change your name or have a big do.

I will be impacted by iht on pension but i don’t mind. We have no kids (and won’t ever) and my assets are left to nephew and partner.

so yes there will be iht but I really don’t mind that nephew will get say £400k worth of pension rather than £500k.
sny changes to cohabitation need sone sort of opt out if they are going to insist on default rights. Else we’d just live separately (2 flats next to each other) which is daft and who can prove who sleeps where!

This

Not just tax purposes. If either of you became seriously ill, you may not be accepted as next of kin. Plenty of examples where family have stepped in and insisted on treatment regimens their partner knows the patient wouldn't want. Even examples when a lifetime partner has been excluded from the deathbed/funeral. Just do a civil partnership with as little ceremony as you wish.

Which is why you specify in your Will who is your NoK and will organise your funeral.

Ditto - put your Dp on your NHS record as your NoK..

NoK in the UK has no specific legal definition meaning 'blood family or legal spouse'.

I had an accident in a different area from where I live: A&E looked at my records and checked that my son, as specified on my record, is my preferred NoK for any consents etc.

Likewise everyone, married or not, should have LPA (power of attorney) in which you can give your partner (one anyone you choose) the decision making capacity for finance and welfare should you lose capacity.

So much scaremongering about this - you can sort it all with less faff than arranging a wedding and the ensuing admin (yes - you need to change your status on lots of things if you marry)

Can’t believe you didn’t know about civil partnerships!

(yes - you need to change your status on lots of things if you marry)

Do you? I don't remember doing so. Changing your name entails faff, but no-one is obliged to do that, and I didn't.

HMRC? Does marital status affect tax these days?

DWP? But it's living together that affects benefits whether married or not, no?