Advised to get married whilst doing wills

[mustytrusty]

Went to a solicitor with DP today to arrange our wills. We have mortgage, two dc's and been together 23 years. Have been advised that for tax reasons we should think about getting married.

I have no desire to be married. Not to him or anyone else, and I never have wanted to be.

Does anyone know if there's a campaign to make the tax situation for long-term couples
mirror that of married couples?

Boggles my mind that in this day and age unmarried couples can be treated differently than married.

It’s because wills always become invalid on CP or marriage. You can do a new will on exactly the same teams if you want to but need to get it rewritten and witnessed again.

A will is revoked by marriage (unless made ‘in contemplation of marriage’) which means the intestacy rules apply.

If Minnie has children (whether fathered by Mickey or not) and the estate is big enough, Mickey won’t ’get the lot’.

Alternatively, maybe the will leaves money to the children as well as Mickey. Not necessarily if Minnie gets married - the will is revoked and intestacy rules apply. Mickey might end up with either money or property Minnie wanted the children to have.

Just bear in mind @mustytrusty

For your information, although the solicitor should have explained better

The term ‘common law partner’ is sometimes still used to describe two people who are living together as a couple and are not married or in a civil partnership.

This term is not recognised in English law.

It means that no matter how long you have been living together as a couple, you will not have the same rights or protection as a married couple, or a couple who have registered a civil partnership.

A colleague of mine got married purely for the reasons you've been advised to. They told noone, went to the registry office in their lunch hour. Did the paperwork and came back to work.

They had no reception no party no name changing nothing. In fact everyone thought they were kidding when they told us.

They treated it as what it was - a piece of life admin

A Will is ‘just a piece of paper’. So is a mortgage contract. No, hold on, those are legal contracts. Like marriage or civil partnership.

People in other countries have common law legislation but the Brits don’t want that in the main. So here we are.

Look at it this way. At the moment, depending on the value of your assets you would have to pay inheritance tax on anything your partner left you in his Will. Can you do this and still retain your home? or would you have to sell so you can pay the IHT?

Also, there are drawbacks to living together having rights equivalent to marriage - it’s easy to drift into legal ties that one or both parties might not want. There are examples of this in Australia where this is the legal position.

In the UK, the view is that spousal rights are so significant and wide ranging that they should only bind people who have positively and knowingly consented. The method of demonstrating that consent is entering into a marriage or a civil partnership.

@mustytrusty

I wonder if a cohabitation agreement could work for you? (under advisement ofc)

It's not just tax purposes. It can mean you get a bigger state pension and if you have a work place pension you can usually pass that to your spouse, it isn't automatic to go to a partner.

Inheritance tax can be passed across.

At the moment, if you don't have wills, if either one of you dies the money / house / assets will go to your children not the surviving partner. If you do have 'mirror' wills there is nothing to stop one of you changing it.

Parental responsibility, this happened to a relative's friend, their baby was born prematurely and needed medical intervention, legally only the mother could give permission. They got married shortly after brining their baby home.

If your employer provides private health insurance it usually can cover a spouse and children.

One is a legal contract, the other isn’t. It’s like saying why should I need a will to ensure that my family inherits my estate rather than the state. It’s just how things work. You couldn’t possibly expect the state to have to work out who was in a long term relationship and who wasn’t. Imagine the cost.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

@mustytrusty

they already have civil partnership? What a waste of time and energy to try and create something different especially for people who want to be ‘financially married but not actually married’ it would be! Go sign a piece of paper.

That's the thing, even in this day and age it's not just a piece of paper. It has far reaching legal and financial implications.

It's because there has to be an option for those who don't want to be financially tied to each other even though they have lived together for long periods. You have the choice to say that you are and therefore can get married or have a civil partnership.

Thanks for all the replies and the judgment that I am somehow lacking for not wanting to 'just get a bit of paper' when the point is that I have already shown commitment in two kids, a mortgage and a 20-odd year relationship. I'm actually really surprised that people think this isn't enough and that it's ok for me to be legally worse off than two people who have known each other a month when one of them dies, but they got the piece of paper. I get that we all have different points of view on things but I wasn't expecting to have my reasoning slated. Thanks for all the info and links - I'll read them now.

Thank you!

Legally it isn't enough though, for the reasons given above. How do you measure commitment objectively. Are you as committed as a couple together for 30 years with 3 kids, or 10 years with 7 kids, or 3 years with 2 kids? The way to prove your commitment is the piece of paper via a civil partnership.

How do you define a long term couple? How would hmrc know you had been together x years? Having children or a mortgage isn’t proof as you can buy a house with a platonic friend and plenty of people split after having kids! The legal ways to get protection in a long term relationship is marriage or civil partnership. A basic civil ceremony for marriage is not expensive, £100 or so, this is how HMRC know you are a couple and earns you the tax advantages. You do not have to have a “wedding” it’s simply signing the documents with 2 witnesses and the registrar reading the contract out to which you verbally agree (I think you are both asked prior separately, this is to stop coercion and forced marriage)

I don’t think people are judging you.

HMRC just need paperwork.

That’s what the piece of paper is for though. That’s what marriage is. It’s a legal process. That’s literally the point of marriage/CP.

You’re still missing the point. How can you expect the government to know about your 20 year relationship and mortgage? And lots of people have kids with partners that they never see again so that’s no demonstration of a committed relationship. If you want legal protection then you get a legal document. Just like you would want a legal contract with your employer. You’re massively over thinking this and seem to be taking offence for no reason.

Theres pros and cons of being married/CP against being legally single. You need to chose what is right for you.

You can't just expect the Government to know which status you prefer. There are good reasons some people chose NOT to be married. If they are legally presumed yo be married they can be open to abuse.

Marriage isn't about white dresses and parties. Its not even about love really. Its about a legal commitment to another person and declaring you which to be seen as a joint entity legally.

is this true? Can register office staff act as witnesses? How can this be arranged? There needs to be some planning in advance of the registry office booking.

The problem with “Common-law marriage” is that:
what if you had purposefully not got married so you could dispose of your assets independently. Which is common in previously divorced couples, where A wants their assets and house to go to their children, and the same for B.
If there was a way that just living together for a long time became the equivalent of marriage. Then they could “accidentally” find themselves in that situation.

Also if you don’t want to “get married” then how would you feel to find out one day you had “accidentally” done it anyway? Even to the point of having the divorce if you split?

Marriage is a legal contract that nominates the spouses as having legal responsibilities towards each other. Property is shared. It protects the more vulnerable partner from exploitation. It indicates that the position of their parents is reduced in favour of their spouse (next of kin). It protects the surviving spouse after unexpected death.

At what point would you like those rights to be automatically given to couples who haven’t married, and how can they opt out if they need to?

I get why you are frustrated, but that is literally what marriage is and if you want those advantages the cheapest way to get them is to marry. Some people have good reason not to, they have a competing set of advantages they don’t want to lose. It has to be a choice people
make.