Lucy Letby - what's happening

[Viviennemary]

In the last few days I've heard conflicting news stories. One an ex coroner saying she is innocent. And another piece of news saying the Cheshire police want to charge her with more crimes believed to have been carried out at two other hospitals she worked at.

Dial 999?

But, the relationship broke down to his negligence? If multiple doctors come to you with a concern, as senior management they need to listen and investigate - not tell doctors to shut up. It was a police matter, they needed to involve them and have the entirety of situation investigated by them. If this is who has been arrested as names haven't been released, then justice is being served! Babies died in his care due to his neglience.

I mean further evidence because people from senior management have been arrested and then they're charging Lucy with more murders.

They weren't allowed to.

That patently not true. Anyone can dial 999 and report a murder.

If they wait to have robust evidence, why would they be relying on an eejit like this?

I can't see any reason to give the police investigating Letby the benefit of the doubt at this stage. When she was first arrested I'd have assumed they had serious grounds. Not now.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/20/my-kind-of-case-intense-focus-falls-on-lucy-letby-trial-expert-witness

“Well without being too blase about it, it’s only difficult if you don’t know the answer, OK. Once you know, you know … It’s not very good asking me why I diagnosed air embolus. I think you should be asking other people why didn’t they make the diagnosis.”

He explained that he identified it due to rashes, air observed in some postmortems – although bodies produce air after death – and by excluding other medical causes. But he also acknowledged that air embolism is very difficult to prove: “Trouble is you don’t get evidence: air embolus doesn’t leave any marks, you see.”

Let's bear in mind that when the international panel of medical experts presented their reports, Chester police put out a statement criticising them without seeing or asking to see the reports.

These aren't critical thinkers searching for the truth, unfortunately.

Senior management did listen and investigate - for months. They just disagreed with the consultants after looking at all of the information. But they (not the consultants) still brought in the police to try to satisfy the consultants

I'm not sure the relationship was salvageable once the consultants dug their heels in over the reports showing their dangerous failings. But the breakdown in relations has nothing to do with the question of Letby's guilt.

I’m not talking about waiting for robust evidence. I’m talking about the investigation police, NHS and government are doing.

Media experts have no relevance to this really.

They are rightfully investigating what has happened and the evidence they have received. Then, giving arrests where appropriate. They have more information and evidence than the public do. It’s just taking them time to work through it all.

They also had to think about their careers. The reason we have whistleblower protection in this country is because people can be put under horrible pressure from their employers to keep information under wraps. Had they called 999 they would have been sacked and possibly forced out of the profession. They also weren’t 100% sure but had strong suspicions that they wanted investigated. It took several years of police investigation to bring a prosecution so it’s not one where one of them could just dial 999 and it would all be dealt with.

Or do their professional duty and contact the coroner.

The myth that the hospital somehow stopped the consultants from raising concerns is ridiculous. How would that have worked, and where is the evidence.

No, they didn’t do a thorough investigation. Based on the emails I saw released by the BBC - shocking responses from senior management. They actually told the doctors to stop emailing them about their concerns and what they saw.

Given that a number of international experts in neonatology have looked at the exact same evidence as the court and concluded that the babies were not murdered it is quite clear to me that there is reasonable doubt of her guilt.

So if our justice system had worked correctly she wouldn't have been found guilty in the first place. If our justice system was even half decent this issue would now be addressed in a timely manner.

It’s on the emails? Have you seen them, they were released by the BBC?

So the reason they didn't report a child being murdered is becaise they weren't sure if a child had been murdered.

I'd agree. So let's not criticise the other people who also didn't report murders for exactly the same reason.

But, the doctors did report the murders to senior management who ignored them? It’s all evidenced on the emails.

There's no reason to think they'd have been sacked for calling 999.

People called the police in to deal with crimes at the hospital regularly, as you'd expect.

If they were scared to ring 999 all the same and thought their careers mattered more than their alleged fears over babies lives, couldn't they have made anonymous reports? Spoken privately with the coroner as advised in their handbook?

The idea that they were too scared to call the police - for over a year! - is just ridiculous.

It's not evidenced in the emails. That's another myth.

@Glowingup You seem determined to depict Letby one-dimensionally, as ‘other’ or an ‘oddball’ to suit your argument when the truth is that she is, like all of us, complex. She was ‘the good girl’ brought up in an apparently healthy environment, who got a degree, got a mortgage at 26, and she had a consistent social life. She ticked a lot of boxes. Hardly any friends gave evidence but why would they want to when they know the world’s media will scrutinise and judge them? Likewise with past boyfriends.

How is it a myth? It’s right here, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-30341313-26f6-448a-ba92-b397a802fbb9? It was released in March 2025.

That's ludicrous, and already answered.

Pure spin! There is a nurse who has been on duty for many of the deaths and "Eirian has very sensibly put her on day shifts" but we need to talk before putting her back on nights. That's not how you raise suspicions of a murder.

"Eirian" and management understood this as a wellbeing concern about Letby. And Brearey was ... perfectly happy to have her working days? Right ...

Harold Shipman also ticked many/all of society’s markers of success. Mortgage, degree, marriage, qualification as a doctor, children. Also a rampant killer.
As I said being different is no indicator of guilt but I was just saying that I think some people have quite a different view of what LL was like than from what emerged in the trial and inquiry.
I don’t think any of her friends other than colleagues gave evidence and one of the friends she does have has in fact spoken to the media voluntarily so I don’t think loads of mates are hiding in the woodwork. I don’t think she had any ex boyfriends which again is not abnormal but I think she was quite an unusual person and very dependent on her parents. Who do you know whose dad would get involved in their work disputes and be setting the terms for the resolution of the disputes?

From browsing this thread it seems most aren't aware of all of the extremely concerning developments in this case, which seem to be coming on a weekly basis now. Those who are interested should read Private Eye's extensive reports (Reddit's "LucyLetbyTrials" also recommended). I am convinced she is innocent and I think anyone who deeply researched it would come to that conclusion too.

This is not confusing at all; rather it is often par for the course in a British courtroom. Both the Prosecution and Defence will often put up their own ‘experts’ which often conflicts with their counterpart’s interpretation. So, who to believe? Who is more convincing? It’s never an exact science, and verdicts are often later overturned after an ‘expert’s’ testimony has been discredited.

I don’t know if Lucy Letby is guilty or not - none of us do. If she is, all well and good, and she should never be freed. But there’s enough nagging doubt with this one to make me feel uneasy about it.

Have a look at the case of Dutch paediatric nurse Lucia de Berk. There are striking similarities with the Letby case, and de Berk was originally found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment with no chance of parole. Yet, five years later the original verdict was thrown out, the case re-tried after new facts were uncovered which undermined previous testimony, and she was acquitted after serving seven years for a time she hadn’t committed.

I hope that eventually the truth will out in the Letby case, and we can have a much clearer idea of the full extent of what went on. I can’t help thinking there were many professional errors in this affair, and there is still a possibility that she has been made the scapegoat for others’ (mostly males) shortcomings.

I don’t know how anyone could possibly be sure she murdered the babies - there was literally no evidence, I doubt the critical thinking of some people! The only ways that we could ever actually know is 1. If she confesses or 2. If her colleagues admit they gave false evidence.

Of course she may have murdered the babies in a completely undetectable way, or she may not have done - either way it’s an unsafe conviction that can’t be proven beyond reasonable doubt so when she is eventually allowed an appeal it will almost certainly be overturned, unless there is new evidence to prove it, which is exactly what the media is reporting. Of course the prosecutors will stand by the conviction until then.