Lucy Letby - what's happening

[Viviennemary]

In the last few days I've heard conflicting news stories. One an ex coroner saying she is innocent. And another piece of news saying the Cheshire police want to charge her with more crimes believed to have been carried out at two other hospitals she worked at.

And "the evidence in its totality" includes "maybe she turned up on her day off, killed a baby, and snuck out without anyone seeing her or any door swipe data registering her presence" and "dunno, maybe she just punched that baby?".

Have you ever seen that bit of The Big Short where Ryan Gosling is explaining how the bankers took loads of mortgage bonds that were worth dogshit, and then when they had enough of them decided they had collectively become triple A rated? Yeah. That.

No matter how much you comment or post will not exonerate her. The facts and evidence are with the lawyers, police and NHS workers. They have the done their job by charging her, also further charging her with more babies death. They’re bringing justice to those parents who’s babies were killed by her.

If you want to spend your days defending a baby killer, then so be it.

If all we can do is judge what's in the public domain, I'm satisfied that the conviction isn't safe, and I'm not satisfied that Chester Constabulary are capable of judging the case sensibly.

When your prosecution expert is inventing fantasy murder methods and changing his mind constantly; when you're relying on testimony from a doctor who has changed his story multiple times; when the hospital records show that consultants left information about their own failings out of reports to the coroner; when you've messed up dates and door swipe records so your culprit wasn't on the spot to commit crimes ... you've got to think you'd be better off rethinking your case than flailing around for more charges.

Nobody is defending a baby killer - that's such a cheap shot. Anyone defending Letby is agreeing with actual expert medics that no babies were murdered.

Can I ask what your qualifications are? Because you seem to think lawyers, police, government or NHS even aren’t fit to do their job.

Perhaps retrain then you can fight for her to be exonerated to your hearts content 😊

waits for excuse of how you can’t possibly retrain

Retrain?

Well, I can read and understand words, numbers, and science to a reasonable level. If you'd apply the same skills you'd note that I haven't said or implied that "lawyers, police, government or NHS even aren’t fit to do their job". Why invent that? It doesn't add to your credibility at all.

Sorry, what? Are you answering your own post there?

you hold 0 clue in what you are suggesting

Rates for paying defence experts are the same as those for prosecution experts.

You have literally dismissed them multiple times by suggesting Lucy is innocent.

So many babies to clearly have been killed
who on this thread is sorry for who.

It is just not true to say that defence experts are paid less than prosecution experts. It’s generally pretty much the same rate whichever side is instructing. And the prosecution certainly does not have unlimited funds either.

Well I for one am terribly sorry for the parents who lost their beautiful babies. However I believe that the best way to stop it happening again is to find out what actually happened, and at this point I’m not convinced that’s happened.

The thing is that IMO we don't know what happened.
I would like the parents to be able to get complete closure on this.
Given that from what I understand and that so many experts have stepped up to cast doubt on the conviction, I don't believe that they have that.

And if posters believe that the conviction is sound why are they so bothered about a retrial?

No. People are imperfect, institutions are fallible, and some individuals or units can get things very wrong. In this case, I think the senior medical staff at Letby's unit and the police on Operation Hummingbird have lost the plot. And it's well known that there is widespread concern about our expert witness system.

That's about it. No need for you to invent and exaggerate.

The difference I'd say is that the prosecution could build on three years of paid work by police and expert witnesses in this case before the defence was out of the starting blocks, and that Operation Hummingbird was given an enormous budget - covering such things as thousands of pounds in payment to Caroline Cheetham for media training before she interviewed them ...

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/witness-expenses-and-allowances#scales

For the CPS: "Expert witness fees are discretionary but should be proposed and agreed with reference to the ‘Scales of guidance’."

Bet the Legal Aid Agency would not react well if a legal aid solicitor airily declared that they had had reference to the rate card before setting their own rates for their expert.

Bet Dewi Evans made far more from this case than Lucy's listed expert did.

Bet that getting on the CPS' speed dial list of rent-an-experts creates a lovely consistent income stream that being a defence expert just cannot replicate.

But that's all conjecture on my part. I should stop there lest I start conjecturing that maybe someone randomly punched a baby in the liver.

A while back I looked at this again and started to think she was innocent. But today I was reading an article again and something fucking went down there. There’s red flags all over the place. Yes I don’t have any evidence it’s just gut feeling.

I also got major red flags about Karen Rees. I don’t know why their accounts just flagged to me as majorly inconsistent. I went back up to read again and check is that the same person. It was. Then I did a google. They have u-turned again again. Yes that’s not a typo. Double again. Something weird there too.

I sincerely hope you are never at the mercy of someone else's gut feeling.

You say that. If everyone had listened to their gut feelings a bit more then perhaps this wouldn’t have happened to the extent that it did.

So are you saying that the police should not be properly resourced to investigate suspected crimes? Should they just ignore any suspicions that are likely to take a lot of time and money to investigate?

I just find it suspicious of how quickly 3 of them retired after Lucy was arrested. Dr Stephen and Dr Ravi are still working at the same hospital. They haven't retired or chosen to move hospitals. If they were guilty, wouldn't they go and hide?

Gosh yes, maybe if we all concentrate super hard on our gut feelings tonight then tomorrow we'll each catch a serial killer

Weren’t they the first whistleblowers? How are they guilty? Seemed they did the best they could to push this forward.