Air India crash fuel switches turned off

[limetrees32]

I've not found a thread on this , although it's taken me so long to search out the knowledgeable posters
on the Washington crash that there probably is one now.
But @notimagain what do you think ?

I'm confused by this:

*Drawing on information gathered from the plane’s data and voice recorders, which were recovered after the crash, the report relayed that “in the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cut off”, referring to the fuel switch.

“The other pilot responded that he did not do so.” Seconds after, the plane began losing altitude and an emergency message was transmitted from the cockpit to air traffic control, just before it crashed to the ground outside the airport perimeter.*

What was the rest of the conversation between the pilots? It says in the report the switches were then switched back on so surely one of them would have said something about this? Or said something like "I just saw you do it".

I guess it's impossible to know how you'd react in that situation but the information about the voice recording seems a bit piecemeal.

True, the prelim/interim doesn't make clear who said what or even the full (short) conversation.

The final report may be more detailed,.full transcripts, etc, though it may be hard to prove beyond any doubt who moved any switches that were moved.

Oh that’s interesting, I don’t know anything about planes other than I’m terrified of them but wondered if they had switched them back on - even if they had done that (can’t remember if someone said they did or didn’t) there wouldn’t have been enough time for everything to start working again because they were at such a low altitude.
Devastating consequences across the board.

The prelim report states the switches were found in "Run"..i.e. "on"

I read an article that said there was a 10 second delay between that conversation and them being switched back on. Sounds like it wouldn’t have made a difference anyway but the delay was strange. Maybe a struggle in the cockpit?!

My son who is Private Pilot says right from the word go, there was speculation in the aviation community it was a deliberate act as technically things didn’t add up.

TbF the whole world, including a lot in the professional pilot community, and people in this place, were speculating from.minute one about everything from departing from the wrong runway intersection, wrong flap, contaminated fuel, the list was endless.

I don't recall deliberate act or action slip being high on the list but it's true some started to suggest it but only as the other causes started to be ruled out.

No many experienced Pilots right away dismissed the other things you suggested. My son told me it looked deliberate or an action slip even though nobody could fathom why.

Surely there should be something in place to prevent something so vital being turned off.

The MSM are starting to mangle the report and set hares running.

The only authorative version of events is from the Indian AAIB.

They state there was a roughly ten second gap between the fuel control switches going from cutoff back to run.

At some point in those ten seconds the conversation happened...they don't say when.

I wouldn't mind betting the first 5-7 seconds were taken up by a WTF, a look around the flight deck, finally someone spots the switches and then the conversation.

No need think of a struggle..

Duplicate post..

Nope absolutely not, no way.

That switch helps control fuel flow into the engine ....if you have an engine fire it's fairly important it gets turned to cutoff PDQ..

Doing so is actually the second item actioned in response to an engine fire warning on most jet engined types.

Oh, how sad and awful

Oh well that'd.me told.

Retired now after 45 years flying for a living..
20,000 hours on aircraft like 747s and 777s..all of the latter flown as a captain.

But what do I know?..I'd better hop off to the flying club and get a PPL.

Off topic but did anyone watch Nathan Fielder’s The Rehearsal (Pilot’s Code)?

I found it absolutely brilliant, a real masterpiece.

@notimagain what does ‘modification state’ of the switches mean, please?

@Hysterectomynext

’I was shocked to hear his [Mentour Pilot] take on it’

What has he said?

It doesn't make sense.

Surely for such a serious switch, there should be more safety controls.

it should take at least three steps to turn it off.

So then nobody could possibly turn it off by accident

From what our resident pilot @notimagain said, it does take three deliberate steps on top of making the decision to move it and actually looking at it: take hold and pull a bit, move, release in place. And there are side guards to prevent accidental knocking.

Awful. Terrible if it were an accident. That it could have been deliberate is horrendous.

So it can't have been an accident then, is that right?

You are questioning the opinion of an extremely experienced former airline pilot who talks considerable sense on all aviation matters that crop up on MN, including flightradar threads, and I especially look out for @notimagain and their knowledgeable posts.

There was bulletin put out by Boeing quite a few years back suggesting a non-mandatory /suggested modification to the switches to.make them slightly resistant to knocks.

As I understand it Air India was one of several airlines that ran some sort of analysis and decided not to do the mod.

What the hell are you on about.

I wasnt questioning him. I didnt even read his posts before posting.

I just wrote my own post.

And now reading back, it appears that i have said the same thing as he did.

That it takes three steps to turn it off.

Thanks...

Just to.be clear I don't mind my opinion being queried (it went with the job) but there's a hell of a knowledge/ insight gap between PPL and ATPL.