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Has anyone else noticed that Mumsnet seems to be becoming more regressive on women’s rights?

229 replies

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 06:36

There are a lot of threads, on big issues and small, that seem to indicate a drift in that direction. Women shouldn’t be police officers. Marriage is wonderful. Changing your name on marriage is a good idea… And, most significantly, many conversational, this happened to me type pro life threads. Do we need to be even more vigilant, in the face of America’s lurch to the Right and the rise of Reform in this country?

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beachcitygirl · 13/07/2025 04:53

It was coming. The minute that the GC mob couldn’t see the divisions being sewn and that the likes of “posie” who are flirting with fascism, we’re always coming for abortion, homosexuals and women’s rights astounds me.

AliasGrace47 · 13/07/2025 04:54

GreenGully · 11/07/2025 13:16

Depends whether you think women should have a right to abortion up to any stage. I think most people would see that as unethical in the absence of a medical emergency.

Yes!

AliasGrace47 · 13/07/2025 04:58

OneAmberFinch · 11/07/2025 11:10

I don't know. My views have shifted as I've got older and started a family. It's hard to say whether I'd say that my definition of feminism has changed, or I no longer or only partially am aligned with feminism.

I want to say something along the lines of "a set of cultural values and legal structures that maximise women's flourishing and give society the benefit of their most effective contributions". I find myself broadly agreeing with people like Louise Perry and Mary Harrington who argue that choice/liberal feminism has had society-level downsides.

I don't necessarily disagree with your list per se but I might hesitate to agree that those rules apply in every case where they're discussed (I thought the Next equal pay ruling was rubbish, for example. I think being forced to cover your face in public is patriarchal and changing your name on marriage is an unremarkable social custom.)

Why should it be the woman who changes her name though? Why not combine? It's not the changing I disagree w, but the fact it's nearly always the woman who relinquished her birth name. Is it less important due to her gender than the man's?

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 05:04

OneAmberFinch · 12/07/2025 19:59

You support a more radical set of abortion laws than most of the British population then, I assume. It's fine but it doesn't make Farage "regressive" on his abortion POV of "keep everything the same but move the elective abortion time limit 2 weeks earlier".

I have no idea how you can possibly justify the statement that there are no DEI hires in the entire country...

coukd you give me some example of DEI hires in the UK?

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Araminta1003 · 13/07/2025 05:32

Abortion laws need to stay as they are in this country. Farage is talking nonsense. The 24 week limit is there so mothers get some time after the 20 week scan to make a choice. People have different thresholds for what types of potential health issues they think they can cope with in a child and we don’t want a situation where people are pressured to terminate a day after a worrying 20 week scan, often late on the NHS! You don’t want a situation where a doctor/2 doctors have to sign off every time. The NHS won’t cope.

Long term outcomes for early births before 24 weeks aren‘t great. 22 weeks! Ridiculous and medically inaccurate. Survival rates are low and long term outcomes are still statistically poor. Whilst neonatal care has improved, medical viability has not mass shifted from 24 weeks to 22 weeks gestation. Complete fabrication. Why do these politicians peddle lies like this? Farage would never do this if his wife had experienced a distressing anomaly scan at 20 plus 6 days and given a couple of days to make a life changing decision if they want to keep a baby with abnormalities but uncertainty as to long term outcomes, or not.
It is the same with the ECHR - the Good Friday Agreement anyone?
Farage is a cheap populist, that’s all. A snake charming salesmen, who is sucking up to some US ideas, glossing over the details.

Generally though, I think it’s good there are more men on MN now and different generations chiming in. It’s very important to hear different points of view even if one doesn’t like them.
In my own family, what is most interesting is that we can see a difference in GenZ and Alpha- Covid has changed a lot as well. It broke the routines massively and made a lot of people question everything. As a Xennial myself I also find myself holding views that cannot be boxed in and having different cultural influences exacerbates that. I have DC who are on the cusp of Gen alpha/Z and I can literally see their conflicting influences as well. It’s fascinating.

Araminta1003 · 13/07/2025 05:40

The health/well being/sustainability culture and pro family values I can see in my teens are at a high level a good thing. My worry is that the world is increasingly uncertain (climate change, wars, AI tech revolution) and that they are trying to find simple black and white answers to counter that uncertainty. And that’s where the populists are jumping in to take advantage, trying to pretend there are simple black and white answers to very complex issues. If people have been arguing or fighting about issues, it’s because they are complicated. The desire to simplify and the simple life is very luring.

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 10:15

CurlewKate · 12/07/2025 19:33

If the reduction in the age makes it more difficult or even impossible for a woman to access an abortion in the circumstances I outlined, then Farage does want to prevent such access.

Oh, and there are no DEI appointments in the UK. Unless you know different….

I repeat, Reform haven't mentioned anything of the sort in relation to making it difficult for women to access abortion in the event of a medical issue. You are just twisting Nigel's words and running with it.

'Oh, and there are no DEI appointments in the UK. Unless you know different….'

Oh really???
RAF diversity targets discriminated against white men - BBC News
diversity officer jobs - NHS Jobs
Ethnic Jobsite | UK’s Leading Diversity Job Board for Black, Asian & Minority Ethnic Talent
Aspiring to Include | Diverse and Inclusive Jobs and Support

Now find me the sites that say only white people need apply? You won't find it because it is illegal! But we turn a blind eye when it is reverse racism.

RAF Eurofighter Typhoon

RAF diversity targets discriminated against white men

The inquiry began when a female officer quit, saying there was too much pressure to meet targets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 10:46

@GreenGully”Nigel” has not specifically said he wants to reduce abortion time limits for the purpose of preventing women accessing abortions when their baby has a condition incompatible with life or to preserve their own lives. But he must know that is a consequence of such reduction.

Of the examples you quote of DEI policies one was shown to be unlawful. One I can’t read because it’s behind a pay wall. And the others appear to be advertisements for Diversity Officers, which is an entirely different thing.

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marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 13/07/2025 11:01

Of course he will.

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 11:12

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 10:46

@GreenGully”Nigel” has not specifically said he wants to reduce abortion time limits for the purpose of preventing women accessing abortions when their baby has a condition incompatible with life or to preserve their own lives. But he must know that is a consequence of such reduction.

Of the examples you quote of DEI policies one was shown to be unlawful. One I can’t read because it’s behind a pay wall. And the others appear to be advertisements for Diversity Officers, which is an entirely different thing.

'But he must know that is a consequence of such reduction.' Not at all. Nobody has ever mentioned or plans on reversing the current law regarding late stage terminations in the face of a medical issue.

'In England, Scotland, and Wales, the Abortion Act 1967 made abortion legal as long as specific criteria are met. It is possible to have an abortion up to 23 weeks and 6 days of pregnancy (gestation). Abortion is available after the usual time limit if there’s evidence of severe foetal anomaly or a significant risk to your life if you continue with the pregnancy.'

So I've proven to you people are being hired due to DEI but you are glossing over it. Why do you suppose there are diversity officer jobs in the NHS and why do you suppose there are actual diversity QUOTAS in the NHS. None of what I have linked is behind a pay wall.

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 11:25

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 11:12

'But he must know that is a consequence of such reduction.' Not at all. Nobody has ever mentioned or plans on reversing the current law regarding late stage terminations in the face of a medical issue.

'In England, Scotland, and Wales, the Abortion Act 1967 made abortion legal as long as specific criteria are met. It is possible to have an abortion up to 23 weeks and 6 days of pregnancy (gestation). Abortion is available after the usual time limit if there’s evidence of severe foetal anomaly or a significant risk to your life if you continue with the pregnancy.'

So I've proven to you people are being hired due to DEI but you are glossing over it. Why do you suppose there are diversity officer jobs in the NHS and why do you suppose there are actual diversity QUOTAS in the NHS. None of what I have linked is behind a pay wall.

The article about NHS quotas is behind a pay wall.

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GreenGully · 13/07/2025 11:40

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 11:25

The article about NHS quotas is behind a pay wall.

‘Mission-critical to all that we stand for’
Evelyn Asante-Mensah, who co-chairs the assembly, said: “As inclusive leaders, it is vital that we all look at each of the areas set out in this anti-racist framework and seek to embed the change needed to transform our own departments and teams into places where this activity is not seen as just a nice to do, but is seen as mission-critical to all that we stand for.”
She said it was also vital that the messaging was “backed up by senior colleagues across the region, being clear that actions to tackle inequalities are a priority in all that we do”.
She added: “While there is not a one size fits all solution to advancing equity within any one organisation, we hope that the guidance and structure provided will help with the task of co-creating the solutions that will work for organisations to address racial inequalities faced by their workforce, patients and the communities served.”
An analysis by Mr Barclay found that NHS bosses had ignored orders to scrap diversity jobs by hiring dozens of new equalities staff.
More than 35 EDI roles have been advertised since Sir Keir Starmer’s Government took power. All but six allowed staff to work from home, and some posts offered salaries of more than £80,000. The 35 roles advertised since July 5 are the equivalent of a diversity job every week under Labour.'

'Under the Anti-Racist Network being rolled out across the North West, hospitals, ambulance services and integrated care boards have committed to achieving “bronze status” by next month. This requires them to appoint an executive or director level EDI sponsor with a commitment to advancing anti-racism.

Achieving silver status means all managers and senior clinical staff must have a personal development plan goal agreed “around equality, diversity and inclusion”, while an executive director must attend “black, Asian and minority ethnic” staff network meetings at least four times a year.

The plans state that gold status means “an organisation’s board of directors diversity by ethnicity must match closely the diversity of the local population or at the minimum include one black, Asian or minority ethnic member (whichever figure is higher)”.

The latest annual report for the North West Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Assembly, backed by NHS England North West – which brings together more than 70 NHS leaders – quotes seven senior EDI NHS figures at local trusts and care boards.'

There you go... quotas.

OneAmberFinch · 13/07/2025 11:57

I remember someone on a Mumsnet thread a few months ago trying to argue that we don't have DEI in the UK because we call it EDI instead. Just lol

This is a conversation guaranteed to involve goalpost moving though, because "DEI jobs" could mean diversity officers, explicit quotas, special interview slots just for minorities, sponsored women's scholarships, HR calling you in for a "casual chat" if your team seems a bit too white and male, etc...

Which one are we talking about?

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GreenGully · 13/07/2025 12:25

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 12:10

Edited

Coincidently there is another thread at the moment Page 9 | Racism against south Asians in the UK | Mumsnet

Quoting another PP on that thread: 'I'm not white, but I agree that British people are being made to feel small by being called colonisers, etc quite frequently. At my work place we were sent a DEI email saying if you're white, you're privilege and you should remember that when you talk to your brown skinned colleagues. I'm brown and I thought that was an utter disgrace. I also cringe when people remind modern brits who have nothing to do with slavery and the empire that they are the bad guys. And what about the job adverts where only minority ethnic group can apply? I have seen this. I'm not surprised at all why Reform is going on the rise. I wouldn't ever support it and neither would my husband, but I can understand the simmering anger.'

You have glossed every every point where you have been proven wrong.

Page 9 | Racism against south Asians in the UK | Mumsnet

This is a very hard thread for me to begin. I’ve been intending to do it for months but felt unable to do so. I was born in the UK but I am of south A...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372140-racism-against-south-asians-in-the-uk?page=9&reply=145655094

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 12:49

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 12:25

Coincidently there is another thread at the moment Page 9 | Racism against south Asians in the UK | Mumsnet

Quoting another PP on that thread: 'I'm not white, but I agree that British people are being made to feel small by being called colonisers, etc quite frequently. At my work place we were sent a DEI email saying if you're white, you're privilege and you should remember that when you talk to your brown skinned colleagues. I'm brown and I thought that was an utter disgrace. I also cringe when people remind modern brits who have nothing to do with slavery and the empire that they are the bad guys. And what about the job adverts where only minority ethnic group can apply? I have seen this. I'm not surprised at all why Reform is going on the rise. I wouldn't ever support it and neither would my husband, but I can understand the simmering anger.'

You have glossed every every point where you have been proven wrong.

I’m not glossing over anything. And I’m sorry-I am not prepared to address unattributed anecdotes on Mumsnet as evidence, whoever they are from.

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GreenGully · 13/07/2025 13:37

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 12:49

I’m not glossing over anything. And I’m sorry-I am not prepared to address unattributed anecdotes on Mumsnet as evidence, whoever they are from.

It's always the same with liberals. They get ruined with facts then all of a sudden its' I'm not prepared to engage'

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 13:48

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 13:37

It's always the same with liberals. They get ruined with facts then all of a sudden its' I'm not prepared to engage'

Edited

Happy to engage with facts. Just not with anecdotes.

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AliasGrace47 · 13/07/2025 13:52

Sskka · 11/07/2025 08:06

Correct, except for the last bit – what it actually is is the first signs of them identifying and trying to solve problems left to them by ‘us’.

I’m basically on their side, but even I get a little terrified when I see how determined those in power are about squeezing every last drop out of boomer liberalism. Nobody ever thinks about just how far in the opposite direction the young are going to have to go when they try to restore balance. Instead the assumption seems to be that if we do it and call it progress, then it can never be undone.

As a Gen Zer, I'm curious what you think should be corrected... Work -life balance, yes., for both sexes. Trans nonsense, yes. Immigration without integration, yes. But women's progress in the workplace? Gay rights? What do you think should be corrected, and what are you afraid people of my generation will go too far on?

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 13:57

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 13:48

Happy to engage with facts. Just not with anecdotes.

You haven't thus far.

Do you now accept people have been hired due to DEI and Nigel Farage has no intentions of preventing late term abortions in the case of a medical emergency? Or do you stand by your previous comments despite being presented with facts on these matters.

dynamiccactus · 13/07/2025 14:03

eeemes · 12/07/2025 05:52

Agree!

It’s not that women shouldn’t be allowed to choose the man’s name, it’s just regressive (and, for me, disappointing) that so many still either want to, or don’t even question it.

We surely should be bringing up our daughters and sons to question any traditions that help to maintain the patriarchy.

But we have our dad's name, so it doesn't really matter whether we have our dad's name or our husband's name.

Maybe we should take our mum's surname and sons take their dad's?

I am Gen X and I married at 26 and had my son at 30. My mum had me at 33 and oddly enough someone was very weird with her recently when she said her daughter was 53 and tried to tell her I must be older. It wasn't that weird for older generations to have kids in their 30s - just women were usually younger when they had their first baby.

CurlewKate · 13/07/2025 14:04

GreenGully · 13/07/2025 13:57

You haven't thus far.

Do you now accept people have been hired due to DEI and Nigel Farage has no intentions of preventing late term abortions in the case of a medical emergency? Or do you stand by your previous comments despite being presented with facts on these matters.

People have been hired to be diversity officers. None of the examples you give suggests that there are DEI hires in the UK. Farage wants to restrict access to abortion. I accept all of those things.

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dynamiccactus · 13/07/2025 14:06

As for DEI the zeitgeist seems to be to make people downwardly mobile - be the first in your family to go to university, but then your children will be excluded from opportunity. Internships only open to people from certain postcodes and your dad (or mum!) can be a plumber earning £70K a year but not a lawyer earning £50k. It really makes no sense at all.

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