Has anyone else noticed that Mumsnet seems to be becoming more regressive on women’s rights?

[CurlewKate]

There are a lot of threads, on big issues and small, that seem to indicate a drift in that direction. Women shouldn’t be police officers. Marriage is wonderful. Changing your name on marriage is a good idea… And, most significantly, many conversational, this happened to me type pro life threads. Do we need to be even more vigilant, in the face of America’s lurch to the Right and the rise of Reform in this country?

No. I’m OK with a judiciary that makes sure that a 10 year old child does not suffer because his parent is deported. The deportation was not stopped-it was paused while the child’s situation was assessed.

So why is he still here? Again his child who is also here illegally is not our problem. Odd how the 10 year old was A OK living in Albania before, didn't mind the food then, had no problem with being smuggled into the uk, but now all of a sudden he's got issues when it comes to deportation hmm🤔

He is also not formally diagnosed so it is simply taking his criminal father's word for it, most likely on the advice of these crooked lawyers!

Currently people have the right to change the sex on their passport to one of their own choosing, and to have their birth certificates reissued with false data.

I don't want that on the books forever.

As a more general point about rights, increasingly there is a trend towards making things rights (or legal entitlements, or statutory duties, and similar) without corresponding resources to provide for them.

For example, various rights relating to SEN in schools and councils having to provide transport, 1-1 TAs etc, which there simply isn't any money to do.

But once it's in the public's mind as a "right", rather than just a nice thing that schools try to do or the PTA might try to fundraise for etc, it's virtually impossible in practice to roll it back, and you end up with the farcical situation of even more money being spent on lawyers' fees and court bills to defend against the legal complaints.

This is independent of one's view of whether the service being provided as a right is a good one (there are some I agree with and some I don't) - it's a rejection of the ever-ratcheting legal entitlements culture which is totally divorced from resource provision.

Farage has said he would like to reduce the legal limit for abortion. So yes he/they have!

Yeah from 24 weeks to like 22 weeks. It used to be 26 didn't it?

Assuming we kept the "medical health reasons" grounds I doubt most of the public would care if it went down to 14-16 weeks - even many of those who think of themselves as pro-choice.

The best way to keep liberal abortion laws in England is to not talk about them, and have people start remembering how they fondly counted the toes of their babies at the 12 week scans because we've reopened the debate!

Taking the man’s name upon marrying is regressive and yet so many women still do it…

Also, women supporting anything a man like Farage says is surely regressive, too?

You’ve got to ask why someone like him cares about women’s right to abortion. I can’t think it could be for any other reason than to reduce our rights. Thin end of the wedge!

I find that women who identify as feminists often dislike women who don't follow their particular forms of feminism.
I can't count how many times I've ended up in arguments here and on other sites because my feminism is different and, apparently, neither tolerated nor respected by others.
I didn’t read the whole thread, but I’ve noticed something: nobody seems to truly understand what feminism is because everyone is disagreeing, and there are no common ideals. Feminism is different for every woman.

I think often there are political movements and parties behind it.

Younger people are questioning some of the truisms they have been told by their elders.

It's not surprising that they have noticed that there are real differernces between men and women that could have real world consequences for work. They are now seeing the effects of the belief of many in the older generation that no such differences exist. SO you get people thinking mixed sex boxing is a good idea.

Many think that is obviously bonkers, which leads them to be able to say, could there be relevant differernces in terms of jobs.

See also - problems with men as institutional carers for small children.

If "feminism" is going to make ideas like marriage by nature being bad for women, or name changing always being be negative, essential to feminism, then of course people will question it. They are ideological, rather than evidenced, claims.

Surely feminism has given women the choice, so if they want to take their husbands name, they can do, and likewise men can take their wife’s name? Dictating that women aren’t allowed to choose their husband’s name is contrary to what I thought feminism was about.

It hardly adds anything to the discussion about women’s rights to comment that you’re bored of talking about women’s rights, now does it.

Not all choices are feminist choices by virtue of being made by a woman is actually a fairly basic principle of feminism.

See also - sex work, being financially dependent on a man. Choices made by women which they are free to make, sure. Feminist, not at all.

Agree!

It’s not that women shouldn’t be allowed to choose the man’s name, it’s just regressive (and, for me, disappointing) that so many still either want to, or don’t even question it.

We surely should be bringing up our daughters and sons to question any traditions that help to maintain the patriarchy.

I agree. There was an abortion thread with very regressive posts. Essentially a lot of posters vehemently against a woman's right to choose, and being very judgemental about women. Like something from the 1950s.

I’m with you both here @LeticiaMorales, @TwinTantrums. Reading a recent thread regarding abortion the responses were so incredibly anti-choice and poorly educated on the subject as a wider issue, that it was like stepping into the twilight zone.

The hyper focus on late term abortions is one of the biggest false flags out there at the moment. They are so vanishingly rare, the stats are very clear that the overwhelming majority of abortions are carried out early, yet it is always the point anti-choice people flog to death.

Exactly, that's the focus of their argument. When we know that most abortions are very early on, and by pill.
Also, the judgment on women's morals was troubling.

this, all day long. its a very small minority in society pushing as late as necessary for any reason, (albeit overrepresented on mn) and those in the middle who were happy with uk abortion laws have always warned that any push for extreme abortion laws would probably result in a swing the other way. its just a matter if time.

I'm sure Farage wants to restrict abortion and isn't in favour of statutory rights like maternity pay. He wants to get rid of the Equality Act, the Human Rights Act etc How does that align with your beliefs in women's rights?

Absolutely agree.

Absolutely agree here too!

I had a conversation yesterday with someone about what they called the "right wing push to get women off contraception".

I think this is a good example of the topic of this thread and some of the generational differences.

When the pill first came out it was seen as a feminist revolution allowing women to have more control over their bodies, to control their family size and therefore their destiny. These days, influencers talk about how they're all going off the pill and hormonal BC.

Is that because they are rejecting the idea of wanting to shape their own destiny? After all, that's why boomer/gen X women loved the pill - surely if you're rejecting it, it must be because you want (or have been coerced to want by a cabal of RW men) the opposite of what they wanted, which was female freedom to flourish...?

My point: someone arguing the opposite course of action to you isn't necessarily doing it because they have the opposite ultimate goal to you.

Aren't they using any other forms of contraception like condoms or non hormonal coil? If not are they advocating for abortion as contraception?

"It was rare to marry at 23 in our generation"

I'm not so sure that I agree with this. I am one of the very first of Gen X. The first of Gen X would have started getting married in 1983.

According to the ONS, in 1990 the average age of first marriage for a man was 27.2 and 25.2 for women.

If the average for women was 25.2 then 23 would not have been rare at all.

By 1995, the age for men had increased to 28.9 and 26.8 for women. Again, with 26.8 being the average, 23 would not have been rare.

In 1995, everyone getting married in their 20s was Gen X.

Later marriage seems to be more of a Millennial thing.

I think 23 would have been considered rare and very young amongst university educated Gen Xers, but it was probably quite common for those who left school at 16/18 and went straight into work.

A much higher proportion of millennials would have gone to university, hence the trend towards later marriage for all.