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Has anyone else noticed that Mumsnet seems to be becoming more regressive on women’s rights?

229 replies

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 06:36

There are a lot of threads, on big issues and small, that seem to indicate a drift in that direction. Women shouldn’t be police officers. Marriage is wonderful. Changing your name on marriage is a good idea… And, most significantly, many conversational, this happened to me type pro life threads. Do we need to be even more vigilant, in the face of America’s lurch to the Right and the rise of Reform in this country?

OP posts:
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MrsMurphyIWish · 11/07/2025 10:35

DH and I are Gen X. We’re teachers but we both have tattoos, into alternative music, gig goers, have friends and family members in the LGTBQ+ community. Light heartedly we joke that DD is conservative - she’s 14 and doesn’t even have her ears pierced and we joke her rebellion is to have clear skin!

On a more serious note, discounting my children from this, the teens I teach are so conservative they border on homophobic. They would rather be trans than gay. This worries me. We have a Pride picnic last month and there were vile comments made all day. My DD hangs round with an alternative crowd, and although not gay herself, her friends are queer and they face so much bullying. We seem to have gone back in time from the 90’a where folk would just shag anyone or any sex and no one raised an eyebrow.

NotrialNodeal · 11/07/2025 10:42

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 06:36

There are a lot of threads, on big issues and small, that seem to indicate a drift in that direction. Women shouldn’t be police officers. Marriage is wonderful. Changing your name on marriage is a good idea… And, most significantly, many conversational, this happened to me type pro life threads. Do we need to be even more vigilant, in the face of America’s lurch to the Right and the rise of Reform in this country?

You sound incredibly intolerant of views that are different to yours.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 11/07/2025 10:47

Snorlaxo · 11/07/2025 10:04

I agree that MN seems to be a targetted by men with an agenda.

It’s funny how many trad wives change their tunes when their husbands leave. In the US premarital assets are often not up for grabs in a divorce so women can find themselves quickly kicked out of their home. There’s good reasons why our grandmothers fought for women to enter the workplace.

It shocks me how many have bought into the narrative that real women stay at home and do childcare and housework when SAHM is something that didn’t happen before the 1940s. Before that the women worked with their baby in a sling or the kids went off to their jobs.

SAHM is something that didn’t happen before the 1940s. Before that the women worked with their baby in a sling or the kids went off to their jobs.

I often see this kind of thing stated on MN. It doesn't reflect my family's experience at all. My grandmothers were both born in the 1900s. My maternal GM was from a very poor family living in a rural area. Her father, who had had a manual job, died while she was still at school. After that her mother had to become the breadwinner, but prior to that she was at home looking after her very large family and keeping house. She may have been looking after chickens and growing vegetables as well, but she certainly wasn't in paid employment.

My GM left school at the earliest age possible and worked at whatever jobs she could get until she married (maid of all work, shop assistant), and then she was a housewife and mother. She did have a job during WW2 when she took over an insurance round from a man who'd been called up, but when the war ended she gave that up and never had a job again, although I think she may occasionally have helped out when my GF's employer wanted extra cleaning or kitchen work done. My GF was a gardener, so they were very far from affluent.

Her experience was absolutely typical for that side of the family. None of my great-aunts had jobs once they had young children. The closest any of them got to earning their own money was taking in summer visitors. Back then they usually had a shack near their (very small) house and in the summer the family moved into the shack and the visitors rented the house, with the women of the family doing the cleaning and providing meals.

My other GM came from a lower middle class family and worked in an office when she left school but again gave up when she married. She left her abusive husband while her children were still school age and fortunately had the support of her own family so was able to get another full-time office job. Eventually she gave up work so she could look after my cousins while my aunt worked. Her sisters also did not work outside the home after marriage, at least while their children were young. None of them had what you'd call a career nowadays. (Criminal waste of talent, they were a bright lot, as were my great-aunts and GM on my Mum's side.)

Maybe the reference is to working class women living in cities very close to extended family who could look after the children while they worked in factories or mills or shops. That's only a small proportion of UK women before WW2, though.

TalulaHalulah · 11/07/2025 10:47

Stopbitingyourhands · 11/07/2025 08:31

I agree with this to a certain degree. SPL is a good example. I know lots of women that have really stressed themselves out trying to give up breastfeeding by six months so that they can return to work so their partner is equal. Women's biological experience of parenting is different to men's. Surely partners can parent well without women having to give up something to make it fair. I don't think that is really progress for women.

I agree, there was an article in the Times recently where the journalist had taken SPL, and basically acknowledged that his wife/partner had done the hard bit (recovering from childbirth, the sleepless nights breastfeeding, getting a routine established) and he was coming into an easier part of parental leave where everything was in place and he could swan around parks and coffee shops getting kudos for being a man on SPL.
On the other hand, he did make another point which is that many men are not even taking basic paternity leave as they cannot afford it.

It’s a difficult one because long maternity leave bakes in sex-based inequality but in the early years women are either stuck with the double burden (doing most of the childcare and domestic stuff and working) or staying at home and then not being able to get back into the workplace. And if you are a SAHM without access to independent finances if you need them, then you are screwed if you divorce. Particularly in jurisdictions where spousal support is not a thing. You are suddenly expected to earn enough to keep a home and DC at least half the time, having been out of the workplace for years.

Sskka · 11/07/2025 10:55

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 09:51

What sort of rights do you mean?

Any right really. It introduces a huge hurdle against making changes, no matter how necessary those might be. Actual human rights create problems in having a sensible immigration system for example, but suggest disapplying them and people immediately cry fascism. But you also see it in the extreme reaction against changing anything once people think of it as a right—look at how difficult it is to get any changes through on benefits even if we need them.

OneAmberFinch · 11/07/2025 11:10

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 11/07/2025 09:11

I would say a desire to see equal rights and opportunities for men and women; a belief in the right to bodily autonomy; a rejection of rape culture and patriarchal social norms etc.

How would you define it?

I don't know. My views have shifted as I've got older and started a family. It's hard to say whether I'd say that my definition of feminism has changed, or I no longer or only partially am aligned with feminism.

I want to say something along the lines of "a set of cultural values and legal structures that maximise women's flourishing and give society the benefit of their most effective contributions". I find myself broadly agreeing with people like Louise Perry and Mary Harrington who argue that choice/liberal feminism has had society-level downsides.

I don't necessarily disagree with your list per se but I might hesitate to agree that those rules apply in every case where they're discussed (I thought the Next equal pay ruling was rubbish, for example. I think being forced to cover your face in public is patriarchal and changing your name on marriage is an unremarkable social custom.)

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 11/07/2025 11:24

Re marriage - I don't think it's regressive in the slightest to point out that some people are leaving themselves in a very vulnerable position by not marrying or entering into a civil partnership. The majority of the population will at some point cohabit with a partner and the majority of this group will have at least one child together. It's inevitable that their finances become intertwined and especially when there are caring responsibilities to juggle alongside work the partner doing more of that will probably not be earning much, or not earning at all.

The legal system takes account of the special status of cohabiting partners by offering them a nice neat package that gives them all sorts of rights and responsibilities in return for a very small payment, i.e. the licence you pay the registrar or other celebrant at your marriage or CP registration. You can try to reproduce this by paying a solicitor a considerably larger sum to draw up agreements, wills etc, but for most people getting married is the simplest, cheapest way to get that clarity around what happens when the partnership ends, which it inevitably will. Not all relationships will work out and the partners may go their separate ways. Sadly, some partners will die while still quite young, and everybody dies in the end.

It isn't the right solution for everybody. Most people with children from an earlier relationship want to protect their children's inheritance so may not want a new partner to get the rights that marriage would bring. That's understandable. But what matters is that people have the right information to decide whether marriage/CP is appropriate for them. So many people are put off by strange antiquated notions that it's a patriarchal institution, that it has to be religious, that you can't get married without paying a small fortune for a wedding, that the man has to propose, that the woman has to change her surname, and so on. None of these things are true.

I am in my 60s and it amuses me that a great many people who were quite vociferous about not marrying when younger are now quietly going off and getting a CP or register office wedding so that they get the inheritance tax benefits. That's one thing you can't get in any other way.

littleburn · 11/07/2025 11:27

Mumsnet definitely gets targeted by bots and those with agendas. As the main female/mother-focused site in the U.K. it’s not surprising. But responses to those (and all) threads always show a diverse range of thoughts and opinions.

The possibility of a lurch to the right on abortion in the UK doesn’t overly worry me. As with most of Western Europe, we simply don’t have a Christian religious-right in anyway near the size and influence the US does to make banning abortion a vote winner. Without that religious imperative most people are very pragmatic about abortion. Plus abortion benefits men too and I can’t see many of them wanting that option taken away.

As a younger Gen X I do agree with the points others have made about gender conformity around looks and appearance. I think social media sets very high (and narrow) expectations for girls and young women in a way that we never faced.

I was at a graduation this week and was reflecting on how amazingly groomed the majority of female graduates were. All very ‘clean girl’ aesthetic - glowing ‘no make up’ glass skin, long hair, slim and toned, beige body con dresses etc. Ok it’s partly natural youthful gorgeousness, but it’s also hours of staring in the mirror, studying YouTube tutorials, keeping up with Tik Tok trends, going to the gym and 10 step skin care routines. It’s the normalisation of what was once a celebrity-level of investment in personal appearance to just fit in. At that age I used to slap on some moisturiser and mascara, brush my hair and head out the door! And that was perfectly normal and ok.

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 11:35

Sskka · 11/07/2025 10:55

Any right really. It introduces a huge hurdle against making changes, no matter how necessary those might be. Actual human rights create problems in having a sensible immigration system for example, but suggest disapplying them and people immediately cry fascism. But you also see it in the extreme reaction against changing anything once people think of it as a right—look at how difficult it is to get any changes through on benefits even if we need them.

Sorry-I really don’t understand your point. You seem to be saying that is should be possible to take people’s fights away, but of course you’re not saying that.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 11/07/2025 11:40

I've noticed. It's been going that way for some years now.

Dolphinnoises · 11/07/2025 11:42

Gallivanterer · 11/07/2025 06:44

Gen X and the Millennials are now well into our forties and thirties.

IMO the generations after them are hugely conservative and gender conforming and there's nothing really we can do about it. There's also a strange liberal-yet-intransigeant political vibe about them. They are the only ones who can shape their destiny. If the younger generations are happy embracing regressive attitudes towards women, thats their problem and future to solve.

When you say “liberal” - what do you mean? Do you mean socially? I feel like we’re losing the British version of this word…

GreenGully · 11/07/2025 11:46

I support Reform. I also support women's rights. Not sure what the rise of Reform has got to do with any of your examples.

Gardendiary · 11/07/2025 11:49

TheaBrandt1 · 11/07/2025 07:32

The youngsters are revolting against our gen x liberal values. Numerous friends young adult kids are getting married and starting families young. They are rejecting our gen x pattern of late marriage and children. It was rare to marry at 23 in our generation but lots are now. It’s all cyclical..

I agree, and there is also not just one direction of travel towards liberalism.
If you look at the georgian's and the victorians, it just shows that things can become more conservative - you see a shift from more flowing low-cut clothes to everything being covered and more rigid rules around dress, behaviour and morals. Whilst Jane Austen published her books as being by 'a lady' by victorian times George Elliot had to pretend to be a man. I think we are seeing a swing to conservative values, it's quite interesting as well as concerning, at least in my opinion.

HostaCentral · 11/07/2025 11:55

People are complex though. Very few people have rigid views that sit inside a specific ideology. You can be conservative, or Conservative, and be an atheist, and be a feminist, pro abortion, pro society, but also be a capitalist etc etc

American conservatism is very different from European conservatism as well, and I think we get a lot of US influence on MN these days.

OneAmberFinch · 11/07/2025 11:56

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 11:35

Sorry-I really don’t understand your point. You seem to be saying that is should be possible to take people’s fights away, but of course you’re not saying that.

Of course it should be possible to take people's rights away. Of course you're not saying that every entitlement is a permanent ratchet that can never be undone...?

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 12:02

OneAmberFinch · 11/07/2025 11:56

Of course it should be possible to take people's rights away. Of course you're not saying that every entitlement is a permanent ratchet that can never be undone...?

Could you give me an example?

OP posts:
SueSuddio · 11/07/2025 12:02

I think we've known for many years that the younger gen are more conservative with how they look.

I'm so glad I was a gen x/millennial where girls didn't all have to have swishy long mermaid hair, juicy looks and a catalogue of expensive tweakments.

I honestly look at these young mums like the modern day 1950s beehive becoiffed housewife in her day dress!

But I also understand the sentiment behind tradwife - that no ond can really have it all and not have trade offs that impact your children, mental health, tidy house (which yes is important to wellbeing), relationships. Of course this is massively simplified.

Our generation didn't factor any of that in, so it's a strange conservative rebellion.

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 12:05

GreenGully · 11/07/2025 11:46

I support Reform. I also support women's rights. Not sure what the rise of Reform has got to do with any of your examples.

Well, Farage wants to restrict abortion rights…

OP posts:
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 11/07/2025 12:09

TwinTantrums · 11/07/2025 07:51

The move against abortion rights is what scares me the most. Couldn’t give a toss if young girls want to be housewives etc., more power to them. But a move towards a society that doesn’t have free access to abortions is a move towards society where women’s access to healthcare is restricted.

A number of them will find out the hard way that being dependent is not a good thing.

Sskka · 11/07/2025 12:11

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 12:02

Could you give me an example?

I don’t understand your question. Can you try to be a bit more clear please.

minipie · 11/07/2025 12:16

I’ve been here a while and I haven’t noticed a shift in the majority views on here OP.

Yes there are some pro life posts but they are far outnumbered by the responses saying your body your choice or nope no regrets about my abortion thanks.

Name change similar- yes some people are pro but plenty of women come on to say nope kept my name and wouldn’t have it any othet way

Pro marriage if having kids has been an MN view for a long time. As many women end up earning less post kids and if you’re not married you can get shafted financially if the relationship splits. I don’t see this as a conservative/conformist view, it’s a female protective view.

The women shouldn’t be police officer thread immediately got jumped on by posters saying some men are unsuited too, it’s not about sex

So yes maybe there is a rash of right wing gender conformist threads being started. But it’s pleasing to see that the MN vipers can see them for what they are and are happy to disagree.

WearyAuldWumman · 11/07/2025 12:21

Gallivanterer · 11/07/2025 06:44

Gen X and the Millennials are now well into our forties and thirties.

IMO the generations after them are hugely conservative and gender conforming and there's nothing really we can do about it. There's also a strange liberal-yet-intransigeant political vibe about them. They are the only ones who can shape their destiny. If the younger generations are happy embracing regressive attitudes towards women, thats their problem and future to solve.

This was what I saw in my last few years working in Scottish high schools - girls seemed to feel pressurised to come in wearing what I would have thought of as full evening make-up with false eyelashes, fake nails, elaborate hairstyles. I'm baffled as to how they could afford the gel nails, etc.

Very different from when I began teaching. (Yes, you'd see a bit of make-up, but not to this extent.)

CurlewKate · 11/07/2025 12:23

Sskka · 11/07/2025 12:11

I don’t understand your question. Can you try to be a bit more clear please.

I was hoping you would give an example of when it would be appropriate to remove people’s rights.

OP posts:
wordler · 11/07/2025 12:28

You’ve got to bear in mind that you're seeing a combination of trends - which come and go like fashion - and coordinated campaigns by interested parties which they run with both bots and regular human staff.

If you are looking out for them it becomes easier to spot the slightly goady but faux wide eyed questions.

The Tory party ones are particularly easy to spot.

Edited to add I should say anti Labour campaigns - could be coming from other sources than the Tory party.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 11/07/2025 12:29

MrsEverest · 11/07/2025 09:05

There’s been a lot of anti-choice stuff.

It will be orchestrated.

Just look at the post immediately above yours. If that isn't a bot from a farm somewhere or someone with an agenda, I'm a camel.

Swipe left for the next trending thread