Should people be entitled to divorce leave?

[mids2019]

I work in the NHS and obviously people split up/divorce during the course of their working lives. There seems to be some unwritten rule that if for instance a partner is discovered having an affair the person goes off work for 3-6 months with stress. I don't know if I'm reality the leave is for stress or just for the obvious depressive effects of a breakdown and the need to attend to a huge amount of life admin.

We get carers leave, maternity leave etc.but should we have policies on long term relationship break up leave simply to not have staff have to go through clinical diagnoses of stress and hence illness?. Just a thought because as I see it there are basically unwritten policy any way with these things.

I could see time off for dealing with the process in drips and drabs.

Anyone who needs 6 months off because they found out about an affair though needs to get a grip.

Sure take some time out but 6 months is taking the piss.

I don’t know if people just lack resilience or the ability to work through their emotions in a meaningful way - but wasting your life sad about some idiot shagging someone else is mind boggling.

If it was something serious like domestic violence or they found out their part he was a prolific offender etc I’d understand.

Therapy helps.

It doesn’t need to be broken down into all of life’s separate stresses - if you are understandably stressed because of a divorce then taking sick leave for stress is absolutely appropriate.

Sick leave for stress covers this circumstance already - and there’s absolutely no shame in taking sick leave for mental health, for any reason!

By having separate categories it seems a slippery slope to pre-determining what are allowable situations to find difficult…. Making it harder for people to seek help for stress for any or no reason.

Not sure I’ve explained myself properly here!

No I don’t think there should be. I see what you’re saying but there can be so many life events that could cause huge mental stress meaning someone may need to get signed off. You can’t create a policy for them all. I think if someone is struggling with mental strain as a result of stress then getting signed off is the most appropriate way forward. Sadly mental health isn’t often viewed as valid a reason for sickness as physical is and that’s where the issue lies I feel.

Would it be fair to have an affair and then get some paid leave from work when your spouse finds out? As presumably this is what you’re advocating for?

Your words seem to be implying here that the stress/depression diagnosis that many get after a split like this is fake, so they can get time off from work?!?!?

Or just maybe, the breakdown of a long term relationship DOES cause some people stress/depression which ends up needing medical intervention and/or maybe time off work!!

I'm sure there are lots of people that don’t get sick with stress after a breakup/divorce and therefore don’t end up needing time off work; which likely balances out the people that do get sick and need time off.

I suggest not making assumptions based on your lack of experience and empathy of a person’s situation; and also refrain from making a sweeping judgement of everyone who is going/gone through that scenario and found themselves sick and off work.

Edited to add: I don’t think there needs to be divorce leave to sort out the ‘life admin’, especially as this tends to happen at intervals throughout the divorce process. What’s needed is understanding and flexible employers that allow employees to take the time they need for ‘divorce related appointments’ like they would for any other appointments etc, that cannot be managed outside of the normal working hours.
And if someone finds themselves sick through the stress of the situation/process and needing time off work, then a trip to the GP for support and any appropriate diagnosis and treatment, followed by the appropriate duty-of-care support from their employer.

I think employers should try and support their staff through any difficult situation as far as possible. It's simple decency and also practical as people are then less likely to end up signed off long-term or sporadically calling in sick and becoming unreliable.

When I found out my 'd'h was having an affair my headteacher was brilliant. He came and found me and told me I could leave site whenever I needed if I let someone know and let me self-certify for a week as well. I was also allowed to start work late to drop off kids for the rest of the year as ex had been the one to do it and had moved out and I had no one else. It helped that it was summer term and most of my classes had left and also staffing in schools wasn't the shit-show it is now back then, but obviously this thread isn't just about schools. I also had personal half-days off paid to see solicitors now and again over the following two years.

I don't believe it should be a given for any one thing that can happen and cause stress as everyone responds differently and stuff happens that doesn't fall into neat categories. But employers should show care for their staff - it benefits both sides in the long-run.

Good grief no? Umpteen months off to sit and wallow? Work and being with other people keeps you grounded.

Leeway in terms of needing time to see solicitors etc etc and some understanding yes.

Utter nonsense. If someone is too ill to work with poor mental health as a result of a break up then sick leave is appropriate. In the same way that some people go off sick at the first sneeze and others have to be practical at deaths door to take a sick day the same is applicable of mental health.

For me personally when my last relationship broke up in very sudden and extreme circumstances (found out he was abusing my child) I had a week off to deal with police interviews, social services meetings, school meetings, doctors and to entirely strip the house of every trace of him but it was the absolute minimum and I had no choice in the meetings I needed to attend … admittedly i didn’t have to strip the house and redecorate to try and erase the trauma of him but the rest could not be avoided. In a normal scenario that wouldn’t have been necessary

I have a good friend who works in the NHS as a nurse. She routinely has 3 or 4 months a year off ( occ 6 ) for various stresses, ailments etc, for as long as I have known her. On full pay and pension contribution. She admits she is very fortunate the NHS are so generous and sees it as a perk of the job.
I’m sure this is not the work ethic of the majority of the NHS workforce but I do wonder if our ( collective) taxes couldn’t be better spent within the NHS then paying for endless leave with generous pensions .
It’s no coincidence that people that work within the private sector have substantially less time off.
I work really hard for my salary and it irks me ( or maybe I’m just jealous :-)

6 months off work for divorce is insane. No wonder the nhs has issues if they have staff doing things like that

No! Am NHS staff and a number of colleagues had time off when they split from partners. When I left my OH I didnt take anytime off. In fact one member of staff said she had no idea I had left him and asked why I hadn't been off lol. Work was my sanctuary, why would I want to sit in the house with my ex 😂

I don't think it should be a policy, no. When I split up with my ex (admittedly not married but together for nearly ten years) I was the happiest and most productive I'd been in probably years!

On the other hand I was signed off once for (work related) stress for two months and the process was pretty easy - I was quite surprised tbh. Just a 15 min GP appointment. My work friend was signed off for five months at another point, again for work related stress (she also had a bit of a breakdown), and she said it was the same for her. So I don't think it's as onerous as you seem to think to be signed off (whether that's always a good thing I don't know - six months seems excessive to me but who knows the circumstances and what that person is going through)

We've got someone of sick long term at the moment because their great grandad died. (Who they in their own words 'were not close to') Then we're expected to do gushy cards and Facebook posts commiserating them on their loss. Always the squeaky wheels that get the oil.

It probably would but not necessarily because people ‘over exaggerated’ the negative effect of something on their mental health but more likely because people would not be able to afford a big drop in pay during an episode of sickness. So you’ll probably find people coming into work with all illnesses like flu etc, and refusing to go home because they cannot afford to be off work.

much like the American employment system where so many people don’t get any sort of sick pay and so it doesn’t matter if theyre ‘at deaths door’ they still go to work because they cannot afford the loss of pay.

private multinational and one of the guys in my team took 2 weeks of stress leave as he was doing works at home and it was too stressful…. I get stress is personal but ppl are taking stress leave for everything.. Gp sign them off and that are paid. it seems acceptable.

I booked 2 weeks of before telling my ex husband about my affair and that we were over. Then been a capricorn i did the usual. Worked harder 7 days per week for 1 year to distract my mind and earn more to buy him out. So no i did not need time of.

Absolutely not. One in two marriages fail so why should the tax payer/customer/company pay for leave for that? The person can take annual leave or TOIL for legal appointments etc. It's a hard thing to go through but colleagues could be going through tough things too and then picking up the slack for someone else's divorce leave. Nope. I would support a colleague/direct report and would listen to them, would allow early finishes if they're struggling etc but I just don't think leave is the right thing.

No. If someone is unable to manage emotionally in the aftermath of a separation they should take sick leave in the usual way or use some annual leave. Lots of big life changes involve major work/admin/emotional labour. If employers allow it for divorce, where does it end?
‘Moving house leave’.?
’Child moving to university leave’?

You don’t have have to get diagnosed with a medical condition to go on leave.
’Chronic stress’ isn’t a diagnosis as such. Literally all that matters is whether the doctor is prepared to sign you off. This does not require a diagnosis. Most will sign you off for as long as you need.
If you have to go off sick you have to go off sick. There should be no stigma around that. And if there is, ignore it. The law is on your side.

Well, staff don't "just go off sick", many people deal with it and stay in work. People go off sick when they are sick. Not everyone gets sick as a result of divorce etc.

Also, "stress" is not a diagnosis. It's an input. And yes I know doctors put it on sick notes, they shouldn't.

But no, we don't need divorce leave. Those who are sick use sick leave, those who are not either don't go off or use holiday or maybe some compassionate leave if their employer offers it.

There's no such thing as "stress leave".

Time NHS management got a grip. Joke of an organisation.

It's not "endless", it's six months full pay and six months half pay, on a rolling year. So she can't be having 3-4 (occ 6) months per year off on full pay, at least some of that would be half pay and maybe even zero. Plus once they hit the triggers they go down the capability route which can lead to dismissal.

The problem really is that managers won't follow the process and move to dismissal. But, it's not as if there's an unemployed nurse waiting for her job, is it? So, they'd be worse off if they dismissed her, and she and they will know that.

Btw, the actual stats do show that public sector have more sick time, but only an average of about two days a year more. So not really substantial.

Six months full pay followed by six months half pay is very generous .
I guess within all industries there are serial regular ‘ absentees’ , it’s not just the NHS .
But as a private sector worker who also works within the NHS as a contractor I am very mindful of the decisions I make and not wasting NHS money.
It’s all of our responsibility not to waste NHS money so its used appropriately for those that need it , employee or patient.

I agree with this.
See also teachers who 'have' to retire at 55 because of the stress.
Remove the option to retire early on a decent pension (and I know it's not the full pension, but it must be good enough because plenty take the option) and the numbers would tumble dramatically.
I've never worked anywhere that would be OK with people taking six months off because of a divorce.