Assisted Dying Bill passed by slim majority

[smallglassbottle]

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-assisted-dying-trump-israel-iran-labour-12593360

I'm saying that the time and effort spent on this could have been spent on getting better palliative care. You're saying we should take more money from the poor.

Really, not one single country? Are you sure about that?

Getting it from where? The money spent on this so far is a drop in the ocean. This is the whole point.

Some of us really work hard to make it ‘less shit ‘ though against people who seem to be desperately arguing we should just roll with terrible ideas like this appalling , devoid of safeguards , bill .
I think the elderly and disabled people are worthy of respect and they WILL be coerced into being murdered .
What else do you feel we should just accept because it’s too ’costly ‘ to combat in this ‘shit’ World ? Environmental destruction ? Prosecution of paedophiles ?

Civilised society is all about choices regarding spending .

I can't be bothered arguing about this. It's a great example of how shit society is. You enjoy it.

So, because it’s cheaper, we should be encouraging people to kill themselves. Not only that, the state, so yours and my taxes, should pay for it because otherwise they’re a financial burden.

Because that is what you’re saying.

You clearly have 0 value for human life other than the financial.

I'm done with Labour now. First the abortion change to make it legal until birth. Now assisted dying. Its not the party for me.

I sat and watched a loved one die recently. They were basically lying in a hospital bed. Looking like they were restless sleeping. There was NO way they were going to wake up.

Family then had to wait while their poor body failed underneath them.

Indeed - and none of those choices are easy ones. For everyone who gains, someone else must lose.

I agree completely, BetsyMacdonald, and that last sentence is especially valid - after all the dead aren't oming back to complain and any input from grieving families can all too easily be brushed aside with "well, of course they're upset"

It's also interesting that those who were so quick to cry "But A COURT has to agree" have gone very quiet now that's been watered down to "a panel of social workers/psychiatrists, etc", which begs the question of whether there'll be any real safeguards at all by the time they've finished

But then safeguards also cost money, so why bother ... after all they're going to be dead aren't they?

I bet you were one of those who felt that the vulnerable should have been locked away during COVID or sacrificed so that you could go to McDonalds and have a burger.

your attitude is despicable.

One of the things that has interested me in the whole debate is that the same people who would be horrified at the idea that an innocent person should be executed are totally indifferent to the thought of vulnerable people being coerced into dying against their will.

Not at all - I’m just aware that, as with nearly everything in this world, that there is unfortunately a financial aspect to it that we simply cannot ignore.

Correct - you do and I am . Thank you for recognising this .
I care deeply about my patients and I work within in a system which in certain sectors is currently failing patients very badly .

So that IS what you said

That does hit on something @Dymaxion .

What seems well provisioned with say safeguarding when it's run as a pilot then risks becoming a tick box exercise when it's rolled out nationally. The Liverpool Care Pathway was designed for more humane outcomes to those described but ended up being blanket applied. And that was 20 years ago. Now there might be AI involved in assessing if a patient is within the 6 month timeframe

Is this really the road you want society to go down? Because reading your posts is just making me think that if I do make it to retirement age, I'll just spend everything I've got on holidays and expensive meals out. The rest I'll waste :) .

Because if society just sees pensioners as a financial burden and not worthy of any support, why should a pensioner give a fuck about society?

Do I want it? Of course not. Does that make any difference to how it’s currently going? Also of course not, because under our current system it is inevitable.

What a load of rubbish. You’ve clearly never seen a long and painful death.

I’m sorry you think so. Have a nice evening.

Do you have any thoughts on my suggestion that while the government will make savings in not paying for pensions and disability support, it will lose money due to the social contract breaking down?

I don't know why this keeps being rolled out. Of course people have seen painful deaths, they just think decent palliative care would be better than killing people.

This reasoning doesn’t hold up to scrutiny .

Gains and losses in spending really don’t balance in the simplistic way you seem to be suggesting. It is completely possible to invest money in good , effective care and health systems that result in a win win situation for patients. This then results in huge economic savings as well as optimal health outcomes .

Some examples -antibiotics are still hugely & inappropriately prescribed. Also the air quality & hygiene levels in NHS hospitals are too often suboptimal .
These factors lead to iatrogenic illnesses and death through ( eg) MRSA , Sepsis and hospital acquired pneumonia.

Prescribing antibiotics in accordance with proper clinical indication and adhering to proper hygiene protocols , together with excellent air filtration systems would both SAVE money and many lives .

The social contract is already breaking. Given that assisted dying is, according to most polls, supported by about 70% of the population, this will actually help rather than make it worse, if you ask me.