Assisted Dying Bill passed by slim majority

[smallglassbottle]

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-assisted-dying-trump-israel-iran-labour-12593360

Would you care to give an examplE of a country where it is working well ?

But that requires the kind of long term thinking and planning that simply does not exist under our current system.

The days of old men planting trees under whose shade they will never sit is long behind us and isn’t coming back. To believe otherwise is to ignore everything that has happened in the last 30 years or so in western capitalist democracies.

This.

I'm not opposed to the principle of assisted dying for those with a short prognosis that's going to be distressing and painful, if they so choose - on that basis.
But I do think it's a minefield and so easily open to abuse.
Better palliative care and support would be a better starting place imo, so people aren't living in pain or distress in their last weeks/days/hours.

I've looked after enough people approaching and during their death to know that improving that would prevent some, maybe a lot, of pain and suffering at end of life. I think it's sad that there's very little discussion around that, maybe it's about the financial side - it'd be more expensive than voluntary euthanasia I guess.

It's 70% now. Let's see what it is in a couple of years when the inevitable scandals start being reported.

I think part of the problem is people not being able to see themselves as the elderly woman being pressured into dying a little bit early in order to preserve her children's inheritance. Or worse, to avoid being a burden on her husband.

But old age will come to us all. Tbh, I no longer really care. This society is already disintegrating into a mess of selfish individualism. I think I'll just book my Antarctic cruise and let the government pay for my death when the money runs out.

When people say it won’t get through the Lords why do they think that? Do we know the Lords has more assisted dying opponents that the Commons? Would the Lords block a bill that the elected House had passed on an issue of conscious?

Childish and unnecessary.

I don't know about about having more supporters, but depressingly, the House of Lords seems to be more likely to scrutinize the actual details of the bill and question any problems.

I agree in most ways. If I thought swimming against the tide would be anything other than exhausting, futile and ultimately fatal, I might consider it but in the end we are where we are and I see no way out of it.

Might as well make the best of a bad situation and operate within the parameters that are forced upon us, rather than the ones we wish they would be, as otherwise, what else can we really do?

It is unlikely you’re a seven foot eight astronaut as 1) such a height would prelude you from being selected for the role
and 2) so far you seem to favour silly insults over reasoned argument which isn’t indicative of the logical skills required .
From the evidence presented I think you’re likely to be a 🧌 ?

I am a however a doctor . It seems strange to decide you don’t believe I am because I care about people .

The Lords can be very good at thorough scrutiny of a bill, and there much more cross-party work there as well - which is a good thing.

When it applies to you see how you feel. Good palliative care still means you don t get to die when you choose before you get to a stage of unbearable suffering.
Why drag out the inevitable because it makes some people feel uncomfortable
If you watched a loved one die during end of life care you would vote yes for this in an instant
Really hope it passes all the way through.

Please could you explain why you think I’m not a doctor ?

I asked if you were sure about every single country where it doesn't work well. You coming back and asking me doesn't answer my question. The onus is on you to provide proof of your claim.

Having worked at a hospice I have to agree with you.

When it applies to you see how you feel. Good palliative care still means you don t get to die when you choose before you get to a stage of unbearable suffering.
Why drag out the inevitable because it makes some people feel uncomfortable
If you watched a loved one die during end of life care you would vote yes for this in an instant
Really hope it passes all the way through.

This. If you’ve not experienced this you have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m very glad the bill has passed and given people a CHOICE

But the fact the Lords works cross party doesn’t mean it won’t pass does it? Today vote of MPs showed cross party support and cross party opposition. And the fact the Lords scrutinise better surely means they will amend it to improve it, rather than kill it. I just don’t understand why people keep saying the Lords will kill it when they so rarely kill bills because they accept the Commons is the elected Chamber and should decide which bills survive even if that means accepting a few amendments from the Lords to ensure they work as intended.

I have watched a loved one die during end of life care and it wasn't a horrible experience. It was peaceful and it was a privilege for me to be there. Surely everyone in the UK doesn't die in a stage of unbearable suffering?

I'm not debating the bill btw, just pointing out that your statement isn't necessarily true.

Well - you didn’t actually ask me anything as I’m not the poster to whom you were replying .
I am however aware that there have been many considerable, horrific , documented cases in every country in which assisted dying has been implemented. This is because I’ve researched the subject as you easily can yourself by using google or another search engine of your choice .

I would love to be able to return to the idea of old men planting trees for their grandchildren to sit in the shade under. Can't see it happening unfortunately.

I remember reading an article suggesting that human society could be dated back to a bone that was found that had been broken and had mended- so the disabled person had been cared for when they couldn't look after themself. The bone is tens of thousands of years old.

Now we can't be bothered anymore. Too expensive.

Are you sure that 70% haven't seen themselves, in the future, as being terminally ill and suffering in the way they have seen loved ones suffer?

I'm not convinced that is a lack of forethought that means people are in favour, but instead it comes from a position of personal experience and actual forethought. There are so many ways people can picture themselves in that position. Personal experience, the testimony of relatives who have seen huge suffering in dying, even the experience of taking a terminally ill animal to be euthanased. All of these give people a sense of what they might choose.

It shouldn’t be too expensive. The money is there. Just the people who have it all also run the show and have decided they would rather have more than for everyone to have enough, sadly.

@OntheBorder1 agree with you in that sense, but having watched my mum die a very uncomfortable, undignified,drawn out and traumatic death it’s something that haunts me years later. Maybe that’s me being selfish, but the thought of having the choice to avoid that, and avoid putting my child through it, makes me fervently hope the bill passes.

As someone who had to euthanise a very much loved pet I find your comments distressing. Although a few people may have no choice due to horrendously high costs, most pet owners are heartbroken and would do anything to prolong their pets life, but we understand that letting them
go peacefully if they are terminally ill with no chance of recovery is best for them, not for us.