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Assisted Dying Bill passed by slim majority

493 replies

smallglassbottle · 20/06/2025 15:24

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-assisted-dying-trump-israel-iran-labour-12593360

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
InWalksBarberalla · 21/06/2025 02:56

BetsyMacdonald · 20/06/2025 22:31

Would you care to give an examplE of a country where it is working well ?

Australia.

DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 06:05

Australia @InWalksBarberalla ! really
No @BetsyMacdonald that is not an example, maybe someone has another for you but Aus isn’t it.

I have lots of friends and family in Australia and the ‘rules’ there are very different.

A big difference for me is that if someone has 6 months left to live ( etc etc ) they can ask for assisted dying.
They ask, doctors are not obliged to offer it as one of a few options.

Furthermore
It was only introduced in 2023, 2 years ago so quite frankly there’s hardly been any time to see it being picked at and watered down like it has in other countries

QuiteUnbelievable · 21/06/2025 06:45

I sincerely hope it's not thrown out and I can't believe anyone who has sat with a dying loved one wouldn't support people to go in dignity and without fear.
It's absolutely barbaric and will only apply to people for whom there is no way back

We are way behind other countries with this it's a stain on us.

InWalksBarberalla · 21/06/2025 07:07

It's been in place in Victoria since 2019.

A PP claimed There is not a single country where this has worked out well.

I disagree - I've seen first hand the peace of mind the option been available has given to terminally ill relatives.

InWalksBarberalla · 21/06/2025 07:10

DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 06:05

Australia @InWalksBarberalla ! really
No @BetsyMacdonald that is not an example, maybe someone has another for you but Aus isn’t it.

I have lots of friends and family in Australia and the ‘rules’ there are very different.

A big difference for me is that if someone has 6 months left to live ( etc etc ) they can ask for assisted dying.
They ask, doctors are not obliged to offer it as one of a few options.

Furthermore
It was only introduced in 2023, 2 years ago so quite frankly there’s hardly been any time to see it being picked at and watered down like it has in other countries

Edited

Why is Australia not an example - it's been in place in Victoria since 2019. The PPs contention was that it hasn't worked anywhere - not that the exact implementation that the UK has in mind hasn't worked anywhere.

urghhh47 · 21/06/2025 07:19

I wish they had sorted out palliative care and social care before passing this bill. I worry that it will become as case of "well if you think your pain is too much there is always the option for you to end it yourself"

Viviennemary · 21/06/2025 07:23

There will be soon folk shouting any time for any reason. I despair.

BabyBump1212 · 21/06/2025 07:27

QuiteUnbelievable · 21/06/2025 06:45

I sincerely hope it's not thrown out and I can't believe anyone who has sat with a dying loved one wouldn't support people to go in dignity and without fear.
It's absolutely barbaric and will only apply to people for whom there is no way back

We are way behind other countries with this it's a stain on us.

I've seen my father die from colon cancer, telling myself and my husband he wanted to kill himself. I 💯 want the assisted dying bill but this one has too many holes in and I'm not happy about it.

Ruggerlass · 21/06/2025 07:43

AnyoneWhoHasAHeart · 20/06/2025 20:53

The thing is, it’s evident even from this thread that people don’t want safeguards.

They want anyone and everyone to be able to be killed off.

As the bill initially stood,

  • two doctors needed to sign it off.
  • it had to be agreed by the courts
  • the patient needs to be suffering from a terminal illness and have less than six months to live
  • they need to be able to take the medication independently.
And yet people are going on about dementia and MND and the ability to get advanced consent to murder someone when they no longer have capacity. Because to put someone down with no capacity is murder. Because they are not allowed to consent. Just as having sex with a drunk woman is rape. Or does that principle only apply to women’s rights, or should we now start to assume that if a woman has said she’s up for it then she’s fair game? Because it’s exactly the same principle.

As for the poster who said the lords can’t throw it out. They absolutely can.

I can only speak in my dad’s case who had MND. It truly was awful watching him. He definitely had the mental capacity to make such a decision and made his wishes perfectly clear. He knew he was going to lose the ability to swallow and end up having his life prolonged by being fed through a tube. Not something he wanted to happen so he refused. So I guess in a way he chose his time. Had the option of assisted dying been available he certainly would have used it.

Ruggerlass · 21/06/2025 08:00

What I don’t understand is people claim to be pro-choice when it comes to abortion (their body, their choice etc) but are against those who are terminally having the same choice.

Tiredofwhataboutery · 21/06/2025 08:24

I’m glad it went through. I don’t think it’s for some sort of “greater good” for people to suffer a drawn out death because other people who are uncomfortable with the notion engage in endless whataboutery.

Yogabearmous · 21/06/2025 08:51

Eazybreezy · 20/06/2025 17:47

Has anyone actually experienced good palliative care? Genuine question. I have not seen it in my lifetime. Everyone I have known who has died has experienced a lot of pain and distress. I would like to think this is the exception to the rule. But when you see it time and time again, no thanks.

This is such an excellent question, because the majority of people do not get good palliative care. My relative couldn’t get a space in a hospice as it was full so they died at home in immense pain waiting for nurses to arrive that seldom came. The person caring for them had a breakdown watching the horror show if their loved one’s death.

Nadine Dorris talks about good palliative care that her relative had and the dignity of their death. Sadly, this is rare and the majority of people die badly and in pain. People need to accept this is the reality and stop the fantasy of a great palliative care for all - it’s never happened and never will.

CurrentHun · 21/06/2025 08:54

WarmthAndDepth · 20/06/2025 19:30

In a country where spousal coercive control is only just being recognised more widely, I have to say that the assisted dying bill is unsafe. People don't recognise coercion when it is occurring right under their noses and many professionals and workers in health and social care wouldn't necessarily feel equipped to call it out.

I've lost two parents to illness, both of whom were in considerable pain despite the best round-the-clock pain management on offer. I cared for both of them for months as a live-in carer, taking time out from my own family. The guilt which one of my parents felt about this would definitely have been enough to make her request assisted dying were it available; she hated feeling dependent on another person. She would have felt like she was doing it for our sakes (mine and my DCs) as opposed to for the purpose of shortening her suffering, despite this being the furthest from my mind and feeling so grateful for each day we were able to share.

I've experienced both illness and coercive control and it is an absolute no-brainer to me that at a person's lowest -when you're exhausted, muddled, scared and riddled with pain- a person is so much more likely to be vulnerable to intended, imagined, or even misinterpreted pressure to end their own lives, however subtly such pressurewas exerted. It would be the easiest thing in the world.

This! 100%. It’s such an important point. We are nowhere near where we need to be as a society with the basics of support and justice in common situations of abuse, to bring assisted death into this.

Mayflyoff · 21/06/2025 09:24

DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 01:39

The nhs can’t afford to fund care homes and hospices.
Thats why the majority are privately funded.
The resources aren’t there to look after the elderly and the terminally Ill. Both seem to be always at the bottom of the pile.

Meanwhile various religious institutions have picked up the flack and provided that care.
If euthanasia is against the beliefs of those religions they can’t be forced to provide them. Let’s not forget the facilities are not exclusive so there could be people who want assisted dying and let’s also not forget that doctors attending will have to suggest assisted dying as an option to everyone. That is not within the belief system of certain religions.
So those places of support will be lost.

If you are aware of funding available for all these new care homes and hospices I’d love to see it.
It’s also worth noting the buildings are owned by the institutions, not by the nhs. So they’ll have to find land and buildings as well.

Ultimately it’s obvious what will happen.
Much needed care will be lost to the system and will not be replaced. Families will be put under pressure to care for their terminally Ill loved ones through lack of anything else and people will feel pressured to end their lives than be a burden on their family.

We, the country and the nhs are not in a position to implement this bill appropriately and for those who think it’s a cheaper solution shame on you!

The article you quoted said that government funding (NHS or local authority care fees) may be tied to allowing provision of assisted dying. I don't think you can have it both ways and say that it is privately funded provision so they should be allowed to opt out and that it is government funded provision and they might lose their funding.

I still come back the the key point. It is unreasonable to hold the terminally ill hostage to the whims of religious care providers, if that is the locally provided hospice for whatever historic reason. And it would be entirely unreasonable for the NHS to fund organisations that keep their patients hostage.

An alternative must be found. We are building prisons. If there is money to do that then it can't be beyond the government to build or buy hospices.

NewspaperTaxis · 21/06/2025 09:30

The arguments seem very low level from the Pro point of view, It's basically 'Have you seen a relative die in agonising pain?' and I totally agree that in such cases assisted dying/suicide should be an option. The anti point of view - mine - is that this is a Trojan horse for euthanasia and intended to be, I find the whole thing sinister in the same way the families found Gosport's deaths 'sinister', the thousands of care home elderly placed on DNR during lockdown sinister, the same way I found my sister and my daily visits to give my elderly mother drink in a care home sinister once I figured out what was actually going on - namely, she'd been subject to passive euthanasia and neither she nor us had any say in it. Adult social care in this country is poisonous and the CQC and the NMC are wholly corrupt, the police too will not investigate this kind of thing, it stinks.

It is against that background that the Assisted Dying Bill with its lack of safeguards is passed. MPs and the public have been played.

As with Brexit, which also passed with a slim margin, the actual motives behind it are shadowy and it is sold on a false premise, also as with Brexit there will be buyer's remorse but once it is done it will be the elephant in the room, discussion will be taboo, as the press can't reveal what is going on even now.

NewspaperTaxis · 21/06/2025 09:30

Should just add that the Pro lobby have wholly disregarded these objections.

Thelnebriati · 21/06/2025 09:44

Totally agree with your analysis, I'm actually pro euthanasia but haven't seen any persuasive arguments from the pro lobby.

There are holes in the bill. There is no provision in the bill for pregnant women. There's no provision been made to fund palliative care, which has been defunded.
They pro lobby only have emotive arguments and are dismissive of safeguarding issues. People who don't understand coercive control have no business giving power to those who would abuse it.

A YouGov survey for the charity SafeLives found that half of healthcare professionals felt unable to identify domestic violence.
https://yougov.co.uk/health/articles/22350-half-uk-healthcare-professionals-untrained-spot-do

Half of UK healthcare professionals ‘untrained’ to spot domestic abuse | YouGov

Domestic abuse victims are highly likely to interact with NHS staff over the course of their abuse. But new YouGov research shows a significant proportion of them do not feel adequately trained to identify or support victims.

https://yougov.co.uk/health/articles/22350-half-uk-healthcare-professionals-untrained-spot-do

Dymaxion · 21/06/2025 09:48

Has anyone actually experienced good palliative care? Genuine question.

Simply put, yes.

A lot depends on the experience of the staff supporting the person who is dying,their ability to recognise when things aren't working and the confidence to advocate for the person and get appropriate help for them.
Stepping back and looking at a situation holistically is another factor, that person who has become agitated, terminal agitation ?is it pain that is related to the disease process ?, or do they actually have a full bladder ?

Tiredofwhataboutery · 21/06/2025 09:51

NewspaperTaxis · 21/06/2025 09:30

Should just add that the Pro lobby have wholly disregarded these objections.

Do you need to overcome every objection when debating / enacting law? Nothing would ever get done. A vocal minority objecting shouldn’t mean that the will of the majority is overruled.

SarfLondonLad · 21/06/2025 09:52

AnyoneWhoHasAHeart · 20/06/2025 15:50

There are literally 0 safeguards.

If the bill passes it will essentially be each person for himself. And then it will only be a matter of time before it’s extended to mental illness/disability/the murder of dementia patients such as happens in the Netherlands and Belgium.

I understand why someone would want it in certain circumstances, but that doesn’t make it ok.

For every one person who legitimately accesses the service, there will be thousands who feel coerced/pressured/obligated to kill themselves or have themselves killed.

There is not a single country where this has worked out well. And if you do some reading up on assisted dying, it is rarely the peaceful end that people seem to think it is.

"For every one person who legitimately accesses the service, there will be thousands who feel coerced/pressured/obligated to kill themselves or have themselves killed."

Pure speculation.

As for your last paragraph, no human action "works out well" 100% of the time.

Thelnebriati · 21/06/2025 10:27

If you cannot offer a good death within a safe framework you undermine your own argument.

The way to overcome objections is to fix the lack of safeguarding, not shouting down your opponents. The safeguarding flaws should be addressed before the bill goes ahead, otherwise what you will 'win' is a dangerous system that will cause harm.
The method or choice of drugs also matters. If they cause paralysis but not unconsciousness and don't alleviate pain then its not a good death, its slow suffocation while conscious.

Witchling · 21/06/2025 10:28

Viviennemary · 21/06/2025 07:23

There will be soon folk shouting any time for any reason. I despair.

Why?

If someone is tired and going to die, and you sit there watching them, waiting for it. Why can't they go when they want to?

I sat with a loved one this month, and they rattle breathed, and every time they stopped, our heart jumped thinking "that was it" and then they would breathe again.

There was no way this person was going to wake up, all we could do was wait.

Its inhumane

I totally agree that checks need to be made, and vulnerable people need to be protected, but what about the vulnerable people who are in pain and want to die, are you saying that they don't matter? Are you saying because some people may be coerced that dying people must all be kept alive, with no quality of life???

OnlyDespairRemains · 21/06/2025 11:23

DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 01:13

So
you’re saying nhs money spent on the care of those who are dying is not a good use of resources !!

Really!

No I'm not. Try re-reading my comments.

DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 11:26

InWalksBarberalla · 21/06/2025 07:10

Why is Australia not an example - it's been in place in Victoria since 2019. The PPs contention was that it hasn't worked anywhere - not that the exact implementation that the UK has in mind hasn't worked anywhere.

It didn’t come into use fully until 2023 amongst other reasons As mentioned above

Heres one example piece critiquing its reliance for the UK
( this isn’t the full article )

Assisted Dying Bill passed by slim majority
DrPrunesqualer · 21/06/2025 11:28

urghhh47 · 21/06/2025 07:19

I wish they had sorted out palliative care and social care before passing this bill. I worry that it will become as case of "well if you think your pain is too much there is always the option for you to end it yourself"

Agree and I think that’s key

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