Assisted Dying Bill passed by slim majority

[smallglassbottle]

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-assisted-dying-trump-israel-iran-labour-12593360

I haven't the time or the inclination to research the subject. If you are going to make such sweeping statements then you can provide the proof. Google or any search engine doesn't actually provide proof btw, the information is only as good as what is provided - it's not some magic source of truth you know.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, and understand that it does happen. However, you shouldn't make such sweeping statements, as it isn't always that way. 💐

As far as I'm aware, the only country that hasn't seen significant "mission creep" is Switzerland. Which, for European countries, is about as culturally different to the UK as it's possible to be

My concern lies not so much with the current legislation

But with the possibility it could change over time.it started much as ours has, for those who are terminally ill however the criteria over time has been extended, and despite the fact that mental illness has up to know been excluded those provisons will end by 2027 and mentally ill people will be then eligible.

I 100% agree in the case of terminal illness or where it's degenerative and will only result in continued suffering it should be an option.

However having read the proposals on the parliament website(under debate packs) a lot of the safeguarding measures WERE dismissed. The Royal College of Psychiatrists also said they were not satisfied about safety with the current guidelines.

Both my parents were medicated at the end so they did not suffer pain. Palliative care can alleviate pain; I’m sorry your sister did not receive this kind of care at the end of her life.

@OntheBorder1 i didn’t make a sweeping statement-I agreed with a PP. And I stand by what I say, if you’ve haven’t experienced it, then you don’t know how it feels to watch it. You had a good experience and I’m glad for you that you did. Many others do not. The right to choose is all I support.

Their families themselves might make them feel that it would be better for them to end their lives eg by letting them know they are a burden. They don’t need anyone else to do this for them.

Why are you making things up? I understand concerns about assisted dying from many people who have cogent arguments against it. But your post does nothing to help.

Why have you come on an Mumsnet thread to argue about something you haven’t the ‘ time or inclination to research ? ‘

It’s a really serious subject which WILL affect you and / or people you love .
I’d gently suggest your valuable time would be better spent looking into it instead of trying to pointlessly upset decent people on the internet.
Learning how to use a search engine with discernment for research is a very useful skill which I’m sure you could acquire .Try peer reviewed papers ‘ on the subject or read respected journals . Good luck !

Are you suggesting that those who have mental capacity and are known to gps and consultants can be coerced by their family into taking their own lives?

I am sad this bill has passed the third reading, I think the safeguards are poor and are poorer than they were in the previous readings. Some of the claims that were made over the course of the last 5 or so months were simply not true and had to be taken back. I did not like the way that it is being paraded as the "right thing to do" it is an "an opinion that it is the right thing to do" and to say that it is a progressive move is in my view quite wrong. We are all entitled to our view but the fact that this week we see the rights of an unborn child being swept aside and now we have this bill being passed in my view shows less regard for human life which is worrying. I worry that people will feel a burden to their families and opt for assisted dying, what next those with MH issues opting and being assisted and what after this. This is in my view a worrying an upsetting day.

I always find the excessive weeping and wailing and triumphalism by any group of people that wants to kill things rather repulsive. How do these people get to be so very passionate about extinguishing life? See also ferocious advocacy of late abortions.

Yes . I have watched too many families behave appalling towards vulnerable elderly relatives .
If you doubt this ask the manager of ANY care home about it

@BetsyMacdonald I worked in care homes for 2 years, and if anything two things happen: prolong an undignified life - men who do this for their wives are very handsy with the younger female workers

• neglect because they are poor and have no visitors (basically in rags).

But if you demand those wishes are recorded in writing in your records, who is going to disobey them?
Use your own autonomy in the way I want to use mine.

When I’m dying I want the choice to be able to end it before I’m petering out. I want control over when I have suffered enough.

The debate has been at cross purposes - those who say how awful it is that such suffering goes on at the end of a person's life - and I agree with this, but I opposed the Bill because - and these objections are comprehensively ignored by the Pro lobby - because the safeguards aren't there, and the State has been killing off the elderly and vulnerable at pace anyway, no need for any more assistance.

This will be a Trojan horse for euthanasia, to firm up what has already been going on. Tbf, the State must be thinking, why, we can kill off those lacking in mental capacity and have been doing this for years on the quiet, why on earth should we deny those who do have mental capacity, and whose deaths will also save money for the NHS?

Yes, of course they can be. Surely you understand coercion, it's hardly a new or controversial idea

Of course I understand coercive behaviour. It's easy to spot and not beyond the wit of any professional in any capacity.

Have you ever had to dress a catatonic resident whose loving family has only provided non stretch clothing?

I’m in favour of assisted dying in principle, but I’m NOT in favour of this bill or assisted dying being implemented in the state that the country is in currently. It just doesn’t make sense that people are saying that our current system can’t provide decent palliative care with adequate symptom relief, and in the same breath say that they believe the current system is capable of delivering a dignified, comfortable and safe (as in not coerced) assisted death. Currently, it’s almost impossible in some areas to get timely healthcare for common, highly treatable illnesses. In what universe is the same system capable of providing a safe, well-managed assisted dying service?

So
you’re saying nhs money spent on the care of those who are dying is not a good use of resources !!

Really!

This isn’t about the use of the wrong dressings though
This is about a vulnerable person be8ng coerced that health professionals will not always be able to pick up on.
They wont
They are not mind readers

This isn’t about the wants of one individual though
This isn’t about watching our loved ones die and wishing it was easier

This is about considering the bill in the wider since of whether there are enough safeguards in place for everyone
Health professionals are against it because those safeguards are simply either not there or not robust enough

I’ve sat by the bedside of four relatives whilst they died and none of them suffered.
They were all well cared for.

The nhs can’t afford to fund care homes and hospices.
Thats why the majority are privately funded.
The resources aren’t there to look after the elderly and the terminally Ill. Both seem to be always at the bottom of the pile.

Meanwhile various religious institutions have picked up the flack and provided that care.
If euthanasia is against the beliefs of those religions they can’t be forced to provide them. Let’s not forget the facilities are not exclusive so there could be people who want assisted dying and let’s also not forget that doctors attending will have to suggest assisted dying as an option to everyone. That is not within the belief system of certain religions.
So those places of support will be lost.

If you are aware of funding available for all these new care homes and hospices I’d love to see it.
It’s also worth noting the buildings are owned by the institutions, not by the nhs. So they’ll have to find land and buildings as well.

Ultimately it’s obvious what will happen.
Much needed care will be lost to the system and will not be replaced. Families will be put under pressure to care for their terminally Ill loved ones through lack of anything else and people will feel pressured to end their lives than be a burden on their family.

We, the country and the nhs are not in a position to implement this bill appropriately and for those who think it’s a cheaper solution shame on you!

They’ve done this with many bills
I agree there should always be a second ‘house’ of some sort to check these things.