Labour isn't working - Thread 4

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5333471-labour-isnt-working-thread-3

So Flip Flop is doing the flip flop over welfare reform even after PMQ Rayner in her too tight dress shouted they weren’t for turning. Ok I get this however where’s the money coming from to pay for 25% of working age people signed off for anxiety/depression it’s an absolute mess. Of course disabled people need protection but why is the bill spiralling every year and whose paying for it

There's a pattern here: Rayner is shoved out into the commons to say that there will be no U-turn and then, Starmer u-turns. Reeves says there will be no u-turn on wfa and then, Starmer announces a U-turn. Powell and Phillips stick to the party line that a grooming gang inquiry is a far right dog whistle to the detriment of their own careers and political profile and then Starmer announces an inquiry.

There will come a point shortly when it won't just be the backbenchers who are rebelling. All these cabinet members are being made to look utterly foolish, incompetent and untrustworthy. And, you know, maybe they are but I don't know how any of them can now trust that their green lighted plans or their loyalty won't be thrown on the bonfire to save face throughout the whole term.

I’m glad I can’t listen to them anymore. I might actually set store in anything they say.

Still hugely irritating though. Plus surely they are just deferring the pain. They still haven’t got extra money.

Yes, totally, it will just be deferred @EasternStandard. I'm feeling less and less hopeful. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

I can’t disagree with the conclusion of the labour rebels though, that the changes were poorly thought through - I can’t think of a single policy or change they’ve implemented that has looked solid and considered..

I notice Stewart and Campbell on rest is politics focusing almost exclusively on foreign policy now as it’s too painful to discuss labour’s actions…

Wonder what Blair thinks of all this. Will he come to 2 tiers’ rescue?

Reckon all of the new labour crowd starting to despair - ed balls on political currency also sounds quite worried, as well they should be as good chance that labour will be out for ages based on how the first year has gone if they don’t see a miraculous turnaround…

with tax rises looming in autumn. I can’t see where the turnaround comes from.

Im not a 'typical tory' when it comes to welfare. (I dont expect my opinions on this to be shared by others on this thread). If the rebels actually care, they should still vote against.

This bill stinks, even with the concessions. The government's rhetoric around PIP has been appalling. The concessions may get Labour mps off the hook with their current constituents, but what about those who find themselves disabled in the future? It just creates a two tier system for the disabled; pre labour and post labour.

TTK strikes again. The IFS have said that this u turn will cost £1.5B.

@Upstartled well spotted I hadn’t seen that he’s so bloody odious wonder if he two tiers with Ali oops another deletion incoming

I love political currency, I'll be catching up on that later today.
I feel sorry for Ed Balls. It must be difficult commentating when your wife is the Home Sec.

I agree @TheNuthatch I feel a generation of young adults has been failed in the last 5 years and the policy response of cutting their benefits is woeful. Those people are on the verge of being a lost generation.

@TheNuthatch imagine their pillow talk

@TheNuthatchyou’re right it still stinks. It either is something people need or not.

Not just thinking of votes and inboxes.

My overall view is Labour have handled the NI side and tax receipts so badly this kind of thing was inevitable.

It’s why the rhetoric from Starmer and co pre GE was enough to put me off. A growth happy Labour gov I can take, and have actually voted for in the past, this anti growth one I can’t. And the chickens are coming home to roost. It’ll impact those who did think they’d protect them.

Agree. They are flailing, desperate, and clutching at straws now. It all has roots in that first budget.

I reached for my smelling salts when I read that you had previously voted labour 😂😂😂.

I’d love to know what Blair and his thinktank proposes to get young adults off benefits - it’s in their best interests to work if they can, but, pushing them into any old job through financial sanction doesn’t seem the way forward. I’d love to know what some of the better tories think about it too because it is a big crisis, the growth in the working aged on benefits.

a lot of those kids have been hit by the whole online university, online school, remote working offices - none of that good for mh.

Haha I just really loathe this Labour gov. I know people don’t believe me at times re before but Starmer, Reeves and Rayner are just too hopeless. Everything about them irritates.

Plus Blair loved the private sector. His success was tied up in that, too much in the end with the bust part. But he didn’t put in any attacks on the private sector. He knew he needed it to spend.

With this lot they attack it, spend, tax and borrow. A downward spiral.

I think, although I'm not so convinced I'd set my hat on it yet, that we have over professionalised a lot of jobs that now require degrees but were previously forged through training and apprenticeships.

It has the disadvantage that many late teens cannot enter the workforce in a meaningful way without huge debt and others are left behind and demoralised, feeling like failure and with an abundance of time to ruminate on those feelings.

Yes, some professions need a degree but at the risk of being mean, a lot just don't - it's just a pay to earn system.

If they wanted to get more people in to work then we need to challenge employers who set the bar of employment at a graduate level as a default. This would have been more helpful than bellyaching over ni increases that I expect, giving the speed with which employers are shedding jobs, won't offer a net increase to the treasury.

Teachers, accountants, lawyers, nurses - all could train on the job. The number of people doing IT degrees - having worked in IT for 25 years it’s more an aptitude than anything else…

Yes, agree with this and I will hang my hat on it. Blair was wrong and it's doing a dis service to our young people now, who can't even access a trainee position without a degree.
I see this in our area of construction all the time. I once interviewed a young man for a construction job who had a Russell Group English lit degree. When I asked him about it, he said his degree was worthless as all the jobs he thought he might work in had gone to AI. He had a mountain of debt for nowt and wanted to start from scratch and learn a trade.

I sat at the hairdressers next to a young guy who couldn’t get a job - he had a degree and masters in environmental science. Must be so depressing. Similarly, had a young friend who did a history of art degree, thinking she’d get into museum work etc who couldn’t even get her foot in the door at any volunteering position.

we’ve got to stop measuring schools simply on ‘positive destination’ because it has to be the right thing, not just any thing…

The graduate scene is very concerning atm. Jobs generally are feeling dicey with Labour’s policies

I was just reading an interview with one of the 'rebels'. She said that 50 to 60 labour mps that she knows of are still willing to vote against the welfare bill on Tuesday. I think 83 (ish) labour mps would need to vote against to defeat the bill.

I hope it does get voted down. It's a mess. PIP does need reformed but properly, not in this random way.

Starmer has made it on to the enemies of Glastonbury billboard, erected by led by donkeys 😂.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/led-donkeys-unveil-glastonbury-installation-10296082

On its benefits Bill too, Labour is avoiding scrutiny with Parliamentary trickery https://share.google/Zes5i4eYg6MEcEvii