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Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 06/06/2025 11:37

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5338688-thread-24-starmer-casting-the-net-wider?

Brew
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84
BIossomtoes · 11/06/2025 10:30

pointythings · 11/06/2025 09:58

We have an excellent bad roundabout near King's Lynn, mostly due to the way the lanes are laid out. You have to cross two lanes as you pass every exit. It's terrifying and I avoid it.

It’s shocking. I used it every day when I worked at QEH, bloody horrific.

countrygirl99 · 11/06/2025 11:07

pointythings · 11/06/2025 09:58

We have an excellent bad roundabout near King's Lynn, mostly due to the way the lanes are laid out. You have to cross two lanes as you pass every exit. It's terrifying and I avoid it.

Hate that roundabout. Got stuck in the wrong lane towing a horse trailer and ended up going miles to find somewhere to turn round.

placemats · 11/06/2025 11:24

Vagrancy act now binned to history Plus this happened this week.

Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves
DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 12:22

Safe to say, Badenoch is not getting better at PMQs yet

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SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 12:35

DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 12:22

Safe to say, Badenoch is not getting better at PMQs yet

It's hard to tell who she thinks is watching. Her own side ? The government ? The press ? The electorate ? The subsection of the electorate that is Reform supporters ? Of the subset of that which is former Tory supporters now Reforms supporters ? Or maybe just her cat at home ?

It's an interesting fact that politicians who are genuinely convinced of themselves, rather than just shameless opportunist carpetbaggers are much better at connecting with their people.

St. Kemi has yet to find her tribe, and seems rather forlornly to be hoping they find her. And life's not like that. You want to be a predator not prey.

I should have written parliamentary sketches. I've wasted my life.

DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 12:38

Spending review time

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DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 12:39

Surely there is still time for you @SerendipityJane

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DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 12:48

Reeves says Labour will end the use of hotels for asylum seekers within this parliament by providing funding to cut the backlog, hear more appeal cases, and carry out removals of failed cases.

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SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 12:49

Meanwhile more plugging the leaks on HMS Brexit, as we get used to our permanently lower position in the water. Hopefully we'll be able to throw the ballast overboard in time and rise to our rightful place in the world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yxdyl3w22o

A wide shot of the rock of Gibraltar with the sea in the foreground.

David Lammy holds Gibraltar talks ahead of potential EU deal

The foreign secretary will meet Spanish and Brussels counterparts later to try and finalise a deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yxdyl3w22o

DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 13:06

Reeves says she can announce the biggest cash injection into social and affordable housing in 50 years. This includes money for social rent.

She says she has changed rules to allow more investment infrastructure. She is allowing £10bn for financial investments, including by Homes England, to crowd in private investment.

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bombastix · 11/06/2025 13:15

This is all very ambitious by Reeves and all good but the UK’s tax receipts had best be healthier to meet the ambition.

DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 13:19

Reeves says the government will soon publish its 10-year plan for NHS renewal.
To back that plan, she can announce she is making a record cash investment, in the NHS, increasing spending by 3% a year in real terms for every year of the spending review.

That is more than the 2.8% real terms increase that was expected.

School budgets up by 4.5bn

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DuncinToffee · 11/06/2025 13:21

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spending-review-2025-document

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bombastix · 11/06/2025 13:25

Badenoch was terrible and lacks any self awareness. Who is her team? Why don’t they look after her a bit better, don’t put her on bloody podcasts where she gets to talk about her prep for PMQs, her performative anger etc.

She needs precision and a bit of mystique. She is making a huge mistake every week by putting her leadership on the table. Each week she gets told she’s terrible, which is exactly the wrong way around, and then Starmer basically addresses his concerns away from her. So her poor leadership becomes the issue every week, not the performance of the Government

SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 14:41

bombastix · 11/06/2025 13:15

This is all very ambitious by Reeves and all good but the UK’s tax receipts had best be healthier to meet the ambition.

There's always a bot of chicken and egg here - that extra money should help to make money.

I'm happy for the idea to be discarded as nonsense if the bollocks about "trickle down economics" can similarly be junked.

Many years ago - without the "benefit" of "AI". I did posit that for every new job in a given area, 0.x new jobs will be needed. Someone has to underpin the commute, the lunch, the expense on clothes equipment etc etc.

It is not a zero sum game.

Now that "0.x per new job" metric has - as far as I know - never been investigated (asks ChatGPT by pasting in the above text - answer in margin 😀)

I'm always alert to how casual people are around spending money despite their protests. The best example was just after one of the lockdowns in late 2020. I interviewed with a few companies, and not a single one had the faintest clue as to whether WFH had any impact on the efficiency of their operations. They could point to profit/loss. But was it more expensive or cheaper to .WFH ? No clue. Loads of intuition of course. But that suggests that most businesses are run on sentiment, not logic. And that can't be true can it ? I mean if it was we'd never have left the EU.

*Output from ChatGPT below. Remember class, you can always feed it back into ChatGPT and say "summarise in 300 words". I've left it;s highlighting in place. I snipped a bit at the end about ways to advance, but the very last sentence was:

If you're interested, I can help build a rough model or simulation for your “0.x jobs per job” idea — to express it quantitatively or test it in hypothetical scenarios. Let me know.

So just remember that when someone says how hard something is .....

.START

That's a genuinely insightful observation — and you're absolutely right: job creation is not a zero-sum game, and the idea that each new job indirectly leads to fractional additional jobs is both intuitive and supported in parts by economic multiplier theory, even though it's rarely quantified in the specific way you've described.
📌 Your Idea: "0.x Jobs per New Job"
You're describing what's sometimes called an employment multiplier — the ripple effect of one new job on the broader economy. For example:

  • A software developer gets hired.
  • They buy lunch at a local café.
  • That café hires more staff.
  • The developer commutes, boosting demand for transit services, fueling, or car maintenance.
  • They buy clothes, tech gear, possibly hire childcare, etc.
These knock-on effects stimulate demand in unrelated sectors. 🔍 Has This Been Studied? Yes, but not usually in quite the way you phrased it. However, some related concepts:
  1. Employment Multipliers
Economists have studied these by industry or region. For instance:
  • The U.S. Economic Policy Institute found that 1 high-tech job creates 4.3 additional jobs in the local economy.
  • In manufacturing, 1 job often creates 1.6–2.5 others, depending on the subsector.
  • In service sectors, the number is lower — closer to 0.5–1.
These are averages and vary significantly with:
  • Location
  • Skill level of job
  • Local vs. export-facing business
  1. Input-Output Models
Government agencies and economists use Leontief Input-Output models to estimate interdependencies between sectors. These models show how output (and jobs) in one sector require inputs (and labor) from others. 🧪 Why Hasn't It Been Studied More Broadly? Likely because:
  • It's hard to isolate a single new job's total external impact, especially in real time.
  • The effects vary by region, wages, commuting habits, supply chains, and consumer behavior.
  • Policy and academic focus is often on broader metrics like GDP, unemployment rates, or investment impact — not microjob feedback loops.

END

SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 14:44

Anyone else wistfully wish they'd had this 45 years ago ?

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:01

No,not even one tiny little bit. And I don't want it now, either.

SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 15:04

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:01

No,not even one tiny little bit. And I don't want it now, either.

And I thought I was the grump.

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:08

Where schools are concerned, that'd be me. There are no Computing teachers.
There are bigger fish to fry and this is fiddling while Rome burns.

And other mixed metaphors.

Saucery · 11/06/2025 15:37

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:08

Where schools are concerned, that'd be me. There are no Computing teachers.
There are bigger fish to fry and this is fiddling while Rome burns.

And other mixed metaphors.

I agree. Little Alex Horne has quite enough money and exposure for his brand, he doesn’t need schools as well. I’m not a fan of gimmicky money-making entrepreneurs inveigling themselves into schools. See also: Mr P. And possibly also Mad Science, especially when United Utilities are using them to preach about only using 1 piece of toilet paper and timing their parents in the shower whilst UU themselves are busy making our coasts and waterways unfit for outdoor activities.

SerendipityJane · 11/06/2025 15:48

OK. just me then. Have to work harder to grow up.

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:48

I'll sidle up the Grumpy Bench and make room for you saucery.

PandoraSocks · 11/06/2025 15:57

Piggywaspushed · 11/06/2025 15:48

I'll sidle up the Grumpy Bench and make room for you saucery.

Squidge up a little more if you don't mind.

We don't need gimmicks.

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