Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5338688-thread-24-starmer-casting-the-net-wider?

I dunno. It's not my job to run the Labour party.

And it's not as if they can't afford to lose a seat anyway. We need to shake off the past 5 years when it was squeaky bum time every time anyone said "resign"

returning to a previous theme, I can easily imagine Mrs Thatcher having a reshuffle, losing a by-election and still coming out on top. After all, despite the Prosecco fuelled fantasies you see on Mumsnet; for Reform to actually take power, you'd need that to happen over 100 times. As well as for every Reform MP to remain an MP.

It's hard not to subscribe to the idea that you are how you act. For reasons as yet unclear, Labour have chosen to play the role of the embattled underdog that might lose at any point. Rather than the party that won one of the biggest majorities this side of the war and which can sustain any amount of in fighting and still not lose a VONC.

Meanwhile, one man and his dog-end "Reform" are strutting around like they own the place.

For reasons as yet unclear, Labour have chosen to play the role of the embattled underdog that might lose at any point. Rather than the party that won one of the biggest majorities this side of the war and which can sustain any amount of in fighting and still not lose a VONC

THIS. It is infuriating. It should be treating Farage like a rather annoying gnat, not running scared of him.

I would have thought, given the forum, that more posters might have picked up on the vibe from the Labour party, and recognised it from elsewhere in their lives.

But I guess that's me and my complex relationship to real life. You know, where all the stuff happens.

In all honesty I think Starmer is running scared of his backbenchers rather than Farage. The immediate threat is a backbench rebellion that causes a lost vote in the Commons. That would be catastrophic at this point. I imagine all sorts of deals are being done to make sure it doesn’t happen. That may include reshuffling Reeves.

You forgot the bit where the Reform MPs would have to not fall out with their party. They seem to be rather prone to squabbling like kids, just like their right wing counterparts elsewhere.

Labour are far from losing a majority but the media (and less immediately visible agitators) are especially keen to poke at them on every single matter. I'm doubtful that losing a seat would give them the reprieve they need.

Going back to what Farage is promising us in Wales, we still have the highest rate of respiratory illness in Europe, we still have the slag heaps (Will Hayward excellent as always). I went to school with a coal tip 200 yards away across the road, thankfully that one’s been cleared now. It stank of sulphur on rainy days. God knows what other chemicals we were breathing in.

In all honesty I think Starmer is running scared of his backbenchers rather than Farage. The immediate threat is a backbench rebellion that causes a lost vote in the Commons.

Given the size of the majority, you really would have to work hard to achieve that.

A PM who understands how to be PM understands one thing. As long as they are leader of the party and PM. then they have the nuclear option. To dissolve parliament. It's what Cameron should have done the second the EuroSceptics starting whining. "You want to leave the EU ? Then we'll call an election, and you can work on getting that on your manifesto."

None of this bollocks about a "referendum". Even Ted Heath had more balls than David Cameron. And long history will make sure everyone remembers that.

It is amazing how few MPs are prepared to "rebel" when they are told it's election time next month if they do.

Yes, in the long run you can try to get rid of a leader who might do that. But that really does narrow the field to start with.

Aside from the stroke he had shortly after retirement, FIL had vibration white finger, pneumoconiosis and hearing loss. He lived until his 80s but ended up spending much of his retirement sitting either in his armchair or at the working men's club. He was wrecked.

Given the size of the majority, you really would have to work hard to achieve that.

It would take around 80 Labour MPs to vote against the government. Apparently over 100 are threatening to do so when disability cuts are put to the vote. It’s a distinct possibility.

Mining was a filthy job romanticized by those who did not have to do it. I wonder if Farage would invest the money to make it less dangerous and accept that miners need unions to avoid exploitation of their health and welfare?

My guess is NO

And they'd be willing to see a Reform government in September ?

Time and place and all that.

Remember that massive rebellion over the 2 child cap last year that cost some MPs the whip ?

All looks a bit silly now. Especially as it was predicted the cap would be gone before the end of 2025.

It’s not a vote of no confidence. The government losing a Commons vote wouldn’t force a GE. Look how many the Tories lost before they finally got a Brexit deal through.

In 1984, Arthur Scargill was on QT and blathering on about how the strike was to ensure miners children sons could carry on going down t'mine.

It took an American student in the audience to challenge him and ask why he didn't want miners children to be doctors, lawyers, scientists, teachers.

I imagine Nice Nige reckons enough miners will have died that he can fool the rest of us ?

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/union-membership-increases-in-reformled-councils-b1231910.html

Exactly. Even a VONC in Starmer as leader of the party wouldn't bring the government down, there would just be a leadership contest.

The Labour backbenchers have no excuses not to do the right thing.

John Crace is good today on the WFA omnishambles

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/09/reeves-struggles-explain-genius-labour-winter-fuel-payment-u-turn

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-launches-national-skills-drive-to-unlock-opportunities-for-young-people-in-tech

It's the 80s and 90s equivalent of these schemes that were offered to young people in the rapidly becoming ex mining communities up here in the 80s and 90s. The result for DH pays our mortgage.

I like Reeves, the decision on WFA last October and now on the TH - which is far too high - is not made in a vacuum, the cabinet would have agreed all of this, to lump it on her is unfair.

To move her would be political suicide BUT they should apologise, just a simple "We got it wrong but have now removed the situation where the very wealthy got tax payers money" sort of thing.

Also, change the rules on the household side of the 35k, a couples HH income of 60k gets it but a widow on 36k wont.

I’m sorry, I think she’s a political idiot. The damage she’s done, unbelievable

No small boat arrivals last week (for those interested)

I agree. I’d put money on a new chancellor by Christmas. Thanks for the Crace link, he’s lost none of his wit.

Why would anyone be interested in that? No hysterical headline fodder.

I agree about RR. She needs to go, she is now a liability. It is a shame she blew it, but blew it she did.

I’m not surprised with the wind!!!! But that won’t get noticed.

They act as if the boats appear due to political decisions. We know it’s the weather. We know it’s climate change driven both with people wanting to leave and come here and the climate change driving the weather.

Re Reeves - I’m not sure this one tiny (in the grand scheme of things) issue should bring such disapproval. Most other stuff seems to be going in the right direction doesn’t it? Growth forecasts up and so on?

Unfortunately I think she’ll always be dogged by this. And there’s other stuff like not raising taxes when the £22bn black hole was discovered, restoring NI to the level it was before Hunt’s unfunded cuts would have been sensible at that point. She seems quite inflexible and blinkered.