Thread 24 Starmer -Casting the net wider

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5329855-thread-23-starmer-reflux-remedy?page=40&reply=144419737

Oh yes, apologies for missing out the over 65's data, it is indeed neck and neck so not everyone over 50.

The family have been giving interviews to TV and the press. The son explained what a great man his father was and how inheritance tax had never been far from him mind.

@cardibach - That's a strange way of looking at things, so you're saying that if only a small number of the population are affected by something then it doesn't matter. A rather selfish attitude.

I knew 2 farmers who committed suicide. Neither under a Labour government. For one the family blamed worries caused by Brexit. In reality they had both suffered from depression for years.

I think there is fair bit more to it than that. Suicide is usually the resort of the desperate and mentally ill. In most cases regrettably it becomes clear that this was also a factor in why someone ends their life. I understand you don’t like this policy but presumably the inquest would have concluded that this happened while the balance of his mind was disturbed.

Suicide is very difficult for families, and I don’t blame them at all for their external anger, but it’s easier to deal with that then the other things that contributed which will be personal to them.

1. You mean asylum seekers.
2. The weather has been far better than in the same period last year. This has been pointed out to you.

The poor man took his own life the day before the budget. He had been struggling to care for his wife who had severe dementia and cancer.

Worry about IHT obviously contributed, but it is clear there were other factors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2epp4nyz8o.amp
Eta this bit, which is pertinent:

Jonathan Charlesworth told the hearing: "I think he was under stress looking after my mum but if it hadn't been for worries about inheritance tax he would still be here today.
"He wouldn't have put us all through that for any other reason.
"He thought he was doing it for the good. I don't agree with that, but he thought he was doing it for the greater good.
"There was a lack of information, it wasn't actually as bad as it could have been but we didn't know that.
"We couldn't find any information, we just knew it was coming, we didn't know how bad it was going to be.
"I think he woke up that morning and thought, 'I'm not risking it, I'm not risking losing everything I've worked for'."

I’m not usually one for the old MN hyperbole but I’m flabbergasted at some of these attempts to minimise the harm that this proposed tax has caused. It’s literally the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Nope. Try again.
I didn’t say it didn’t matter. I said it didn’t play in to general population wide experiences.

That poor man, who was under incredible stress, killed himself before the inheritance tax for farmers was announced. Even his son isn’t blaming it. I’m flabbergasted at some people’s attempts at emotional manipulation.

Suicide is complex and most of the time there isn’t one event or factor that leads someone to take their own life. It is usually a combination of lots of different factors interacting with each other to increase risk. A combination of individual, community, and societal factors contribute to the risk of suicide.

From the Samaritans media guidelines for journalists and film makers. There’s a lot more guidance about responsible reporting of suicide from that organisation and others. I’m appalled @derxa is making political capital from this man’s death, to be frank.

Yes worries about IHT was obviously the straw that broke the camel's back.

But that was not how you initially presented it, Derxa. You presented it as the only factor. Nor did you mention the poor chap killed himself the day before the actual IHT change was announced, which was not actually as bad as the poor man feared. The whole thing is so tragic.

Undoubtedly farming can be a lonely and stressful occupation, as highlighted by the organisations who strive to combat that. Awareness needs to be continued to be raised about that, with full involvement from the people most affected. Lies about suicide being down to one single issue need to stop.

Yep. He was also an unpaid carer which also carries a suicide risk, something which is not really talked about.

nspa.org.uk/news/article-how-can-we-support-unpaid-carers-to-reduce-the-risk-of-suicide/#:~:text=With%20as%20many%20as%201,respond%20to%20carers%20in%20crisis.%E2%80%9D

There’s a great deal of scepticism on local social media about Lancashire being next for the DOGE treatment. I know Unison are very, very strong in this area and I hope they react swiftly to any hint of unfair and illegal practice.

The comment about needing money for defence "but not for the obvious reasons" was addressing the point that a massive adult education push is needed to eliminate the really really thick people who did fall for it.

Faced with a story like that, do you really think I'd swallow it hook line and sinker ? Looks like my work here has been a waste of time then.

That bloody man had the nerve to turn up in the same outfit!

I’m not sure of the link between defence and adult ed to be honest.
I didn’t say you had been taken in. I said it wasn’t clear. I’ve encountered otherwise sensible and well informed people taken in by parody sites before. It’s not unheard of. Is this work?

I note with amusement that Farage has been banned from a butchers in Larkhall, Scotland, after entering the premises and buying a T bone steak with the BBC.

signed off with “what a palava over one wee man”

Reform have some way to go in Scotland, it seems

Brexit has severely damaged/destroyed at least 3 businesses run by my friends but they get dismissed as remoaners. All 3 were successful before Brexit. 1 is now limited to the UK when nearly a 3rd of their time was providing services in countries still in the UK which is now virtually impossible, the UK market he is working in hasn't expanded so he's working harder in a smaller pool. 1 decided to close and take early retirement due to the extra paperwork and costs, 4 employees made redundant. 1 is still operating but they provide customised items for a hobby and about 25% of their sales were to private individuals in The Netherlands, Germany and Austria which have virtually dried up because of the extra freight costs/duty. They haven't recruited to replace leavers.
Lots of policies hurt some individuals and benefit others.

I’m not sure of the link between defence and adult ed to be honest.

My - rather heavy handed - sarcasm was intended to suggest that if the UK is about to spunk untold billions on really high tech equipment in the name of protection, then I would hope the people operating it are not the sort of people who fell for such an obvious spoof.

some may grow weary of a life where you do your best to make sure you've checked what you are saying is true to the best of your knowledge to no reaction, only to have some twat with a load of tosh generate 1,000 posts in no time.

Sorry, still not getting it. Who fell for the spoof? It’s a well known parody account. I haven’t seen it presented anywhere as fact, though I’m sure some people (but I assume not high up military types) would be up for believing it.

So what's Starmer doing then to stop it if he knows more migrants cross in warmer weather. He can't just bleat there's nothing they can do and use the weather as an excuse. It's his job to sort it, that's one of the reasons people voted for him because he promised to take back control of our borders as well as saying that small boat crossings were a threat to our national security.

1. It's still asylum seekers
2. See post upthread about smuggling gang arrests

I would also like to see the establishment of safe routes from outside the UK, but that is politically sensitive among the large number of xenophobes in the UK.

Is the government meeting its pledges on illegal immigration and asylum?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dqqj0v1ndo