Thread 24 Starmer -Casting the net wider

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5329855-thread-23-starmer-reflux-remedy?page=40&reply=144419737

WFA was not stopped

Sorry 🙁,,, I was having some play with the "-y" - it was supposed to inject a layer of irony.

I suggest that thinking here needs to be "reformed" as it were. The worse things are - especially if Reform can make them that way - then the chances of creating a "who needs judges" environment are increased.

It basically a rerun of Brexit, You don't seriously think all those people that agitated for it wanted the UK do better as a result ? That would have been an unparalleled disaster. They wanted Brexit to make the UK poorer and worse off.

Because it's only when things are shit the rabble rousers can break the system.

We are fortunate in a way that the UK is so inefficient and incompetent. Because all those little moments of incredible waste make it very hard for any single actor with bad intent to immediately break the system. Right now, I can assure you there are folk in the US who are giving daily thanks for all those areas where incompetence reigned supreme. They will be the hardest to immediately control.

Much as having a little bit of extra staff, or room, or kit or whatever is the price of resilience and reliability, then we should see systemic inefficiencies as the price of securing democracy.

TL;DR - government on the cheap is government that is prone to authoritarianism.

It was for many pensioners who still needed it. But I'm bored of that argument now so that's all I'm saying on it

I think you should correct that with people (some) over 50 as if you look at the polls that isn't the case for the under 49s. Anecdotally, this rings true for my social group who are early to mid 40s; a range of jobs not just professionals earning high salaries. I attended a summer party Saturday night and in the calmer parts of the evening, politics and economy was being discussed and everyone so about 30+ people are really against Reform because of the racists being emboldened by their talk and nobody wants to return to the 1950s! Starmer had mixed support, some falling for the personality politics stuff and think he needs to go but the majority think he's a good and stable manager of the country. That said, an imitation of Reform politics would definitely lose most of my friends' votes so I suppose it is what's important to Labour as the years go on.

You will be pleased than that Reeves has announced that adjustments to winter fuel payments will come in time for this winter.

"People should be in no doubt that the means test will increase and more people will get a winter fuel payment this winter."

People feel what the press tells them they feel to a certain extent and the media has been relentlessly negative. To address your points though:
WFA has become means tested. I agree the threshold is low, and in light of the trade deals they are looking at that again. It was never ‘stopped’.
Inheritance tax on farms affects relatively few farmers, never mind anyone else. I know there are mixed views on it, but it’s really not making the general population feel worse off.
Increase in NI - doesn’t affect you unless you run a. Business. Looks l8ke it hasn’t resulted in mass business closures and layoffs so not a major issue for most. Maybe if the Tories hadn’t cut personal NI with no budget to replace the income we wouldn’t be where we are. It’s better than increasing that again in terms of how well off people feel.
Boat crossings aren’t really ‘even higher’. There’s been a bad week. But immigration is down in general.
What ‘freebies scandal’? Some Labour politicians perfectly legally accepted and declared gifts. Ypu may not like it. It’s not a scandal. And it was at a much lower level than the Tories. Wonder what freebies Reform are taking (and if they are declaring them)?
Nobody gave in to the EU over fishing rights. They extended the existing deal and made some positive changes elsewhere to allow British fishermen to sell their catch in the EU more easily.

So if all that is what’s influencing you/other people, there’s a certain amount of gullibility or only seeing what you want to involved.

Meanwhile. possibly if not certainly - inspired by another MN thread, I give you this ....

A farming family have just lost their father to suicide due to worries about inheritance tax.

And that’s terrible. I was making a point regarding the wider population. As you well know.

The wider public are reading and hearing about this on a wide variety of media.

Well now we know why we need more money for defence. But not necessarily for the obvious reasons ....

The point was specifically about people feeling better off financially or not. I don’t want to discuss this with you again because we have such fundamentally different viewpoints.

It’s unclear from this post whether you are aware they are a parody account…

PMQs

Badenoch losing her calm, Davey asking the sensible questions, Reform's Pochin wants the burqa banned

Same old same old, then.

Damn it! Forgot about it again!

That was awful. Badenoch was really bad. I mean Starmer was absolutely condescending to her, but equally, he could do it easily.

The Tories do need a new leader. Starmer has real problems. Badenoch should be capitalising on them but she is incapable.

I don’t know how she persuaded her party she was the right candidate. She is guileless. Where is the cunning or skill to pin down a government? She makes terrible statements - the part about Russia was excruciating

Pochin is a sign of things to come. I didn’t like her question, but it was straightforwardly responded to. That’s what has to happen for the next four years.

@cardibach More businesses closed in the first 3 months of 2025 than in any year since the pandemic. A total of 2,718 companies shut down between Jan - March the biggest number in the first quarter of any year since 2021.

Edited to add how can you say boat crossings aren't higher, of course they are, more migrants have crossed this year than in the same period last year. Not sure how you have come to the conclusion that it's lower when all the figures are there for people to compare.

That's a really manipulative post: you should be ashamed. Suicide is a extremely complex, multi factorial thing. Has there been an inquest?

The suicide rate was higher for farmers than in the general male population prior to the IHT changes. I would think you would know this. There was an extremely moving, sensitive and thoughtful Countryfile episode on this some years back and on the issues of MH in general in the farming community

Biggest by how much? Source? There are loads of reasons a business might close. And even then the majority of people will be unaffected. Plus the growth estimate for the economy is up, so I’m sure that will resolve itself.
My point isn’t that Labour have done everyth8ng right. I disagree with several things they’ve done, and think others have been a bit mismanaged or miscommunicated. My point is that the things you cite as making the general population feel less well off are either inaccurate or only affect tiny numbers.

There has been an inquiry at Sheffield Coroner’s Court. The farmer was John Charlesworth. I’m not in the least bit ashamed. The more people who know about this the better as far as I’m concerned.

Not inquiry inquest

Gosh I wouldn’t assume that suicide is anything but a private matter for the family. The inquest will have been a further trauma for them.

People are fed up with the Tories and Labour so they think they might as well give Reform a chance

As goldenbear said, this is not accurate.

Latest polls show that amongst 18-49 year olds Labour is still ahead. In the over 65s Reform and Tory are neck and neck. It is amongst the 50-64 year olds that Reform has a massive lead.