Sigh. Pope Leo’s first sermon…

[CurlewKate]

“"A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society,"

I don’t know why I expected anything different. Maybe because he likes Wordle?

It’s baffling to me why people of faith think they are better than people of no faith.

I agree. He didn’t say people with a lack of faith are “more likely to…..”He said that they “often….”

He’s an Augustinian, not a Jesuit!

It’s baffling to me that you can read the thread and think that’s what anyone is saying he should do..

That's my interpretation and executive summary of what @cakeorwine is saying.

He mentions people who are baptised Christians but are for all purposes, practical atheists.

If he wanted to make a point about faith, that could have been a group to focus on.

And if your interpretation of that sermon was him saying "Catholics are better than people who don't believe", then that's going to get a reaction from people. For some reason

Because that's human nature, isn't it, to think that your position is the superior one?

I mean, you've also got on this thread the assertion that atheists are better than religious people because when they do anything good it's because they're actually good people and not just because they want to avoid going to hell.

I think he was saying that people who believe in Jesus are often belittled and mocked. Or pitied.

He then says that people who have no faith are more likely to be the kind of people to people who do harm to society, cause family crises and inflict other wounds on society. He also discusses people who are baptised Christians but who seem to have forgotten that and are basically atheists.They have forgotten who Jesus really was and what he stood for.

This is who he expects Catholics to try to convert and to hear the Good News.

"What's my motivation" for doing good?

If anyone has watched The Good Place, they will understand that.

What is being good, what does being good like look and why should we be good?

(And that's a whole new thread)

He is following directly on from "Settings where other securities are preferred, like technology, money, success, power, or pleasure."

And I said that we should all be able to think of a few people this might apply to. I gave the example of Elon Musk.

It's the old Jurassic Park quote 'they were too busy thinking about whether they could do something to think about whether they should'.

So you think the "people who have a lack of faith" refers only to people who are baptised Christians but who are practical atheists, whereas some other people think that he is referring to atheists and people who are "baptised Christians but are practical atheists" when he talks about "people who have a lack of faith"

The utter irony of the head of a church that turned a blind eye when little boys were getting raped on their watch and imprisoned abused, disabled and vulnerable girls and stole their babies (ensuring no record would ever allow these girls to trace their children - all in living memory - saying that a lack of faith results in “appalling violation of human dignity” is fucking laughable.

Fuck him.

Covering up CSA and then telling the world atheists are often immoral. What a shame he didn't turn his eye on himself and his own shitty patriarchal institution. The levels of hypocrisy in this nonsense just blow my mind.

100%

I was raised Catholic and I am deeply ashamed of the faith I was raised in and renounced it long ago.

Ah yes. There we have the problem. It’s politics.

He says:

"Even today, there are many settings in which the Christian faith is considered absurd, meant for the weak and unintelligent. Settings where other securities are preferred, like technology, money, success, power, or pleasure.
These are contexts where it is not easy to preach the Gospel and bear witness to its truth, where believers are mocked, opposed, despised or at best tolerated and pitied. Yet, precisely for this reason, they are the places where our missionary outreach is desperately needed. A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society.

I think he is, in that comment, talking about the context where people have made technology, money, success, power or pleasure their meaning in life. And if you're an atheist who that doesn't apply to, I'm sure you can think of some people for whom that is fair comment.

He then goes on to talk about the other settings where Jesus is just seen as a good guy.

What about pre 20th century? When pretty much every single atrocity was committed in the name of God?
Including burning people alive etc?

Atheists are not a group or a movement. I am an atheist, but the only thing I have in common with another atheist is the lack of belief in God.

I think that paragraph about a lack of faith could have been far better worded, or even dropped.

If he wanted to make a point about those people who have money, success, power and pleasure, he could have made it in a better way without mentioning the lack of faith and his views on people who often lack faith.

If you are going to do a sermon, it should be easily understood by those who listen to it.

e.g.

https://sfbaytimes.com/full-transcript-of-the-2025-inauguration-prayer-service-address-by-the-rt-reverend-mariann-edgar-budde-the-bishop-of-washington/

OK let's look at pre20th Century

The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.
Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church.
And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever.

Going back to the modern wars ;
The American Revolution, World War I, World War II, Vietnam, Korea; none of these wars was fought for religious reasons.
In fact, the bloodiest and most deadly wars of recent history were demonstrably motivated by something other than religion:skewed nationalism (WWI), antireligious fascism (WWII), and atheistic Communism (Korea, Vietnam, the atrocities of Stalin and Mao).

Ultimately, religions don’t go to war. Governments do, and they usually must convince an ambivalent populace of their decision to do so. In this, they may use religion as a motivating factor (whether or not the religion of the enemies is different), but that doesn’t make religion the cause of war.
Often wars are fought when there is no difference in religion. In the bloodiest war in U.S. history, the Civil War, the North and the South had the same religion.

If he wanted to make a point about those people who have money, success, power and pleasure, he could have made it in a better way without mentioning the lack of faith and his views on people who often lack faith.

But he is talking specifically about people who have replaced faith with a desire for money, success, power, pleasure and technology, and who mock or despise those who do have faith. So mentioning their lack of faith in that context is entirely relevant.

If you're not one of those people, then it's quite easy to assume he's not talking about you.

Ive only read the first page, this is a brilliant thread OP, very funny, well done!

Thats the same for any belief system, why are you baffled by that. Its human nature

Do you think tories sit there and think 'well labour are much better than us, have better policies and would govern better'?

Humans by and large think their way is the right and best way. its how we live.

As one example.

Exactly this. Thats the good thing about Catholics, they give it all they've got. No pussy footing around.

I say that as an atheist.

Wars are always caused by people wanting land and resources that they havent got. Thats it.

And I dont see many threads cropping up on the latest speech (not sure of the technical term) from big wig Imams or Rabbis or other religious leaders around the world. They'll all be saying much of a muchness. Follow the faith etc etc blah blah blah

The Vatican News has a different spin on your interpretation

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-05/pope-leo-xiv-homily-faith-college-cardinals-sistine-chapel.html

Lack of faith accompanied by lack of meaning in life

"A lack of faith," Pope Leo underscored, "is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society."
Today, he observed, "there are many settings in which Jesus, although appreciated as a man, is reduced to a kind of charismatic leader or superman."

Acknowledging this happens "not only among non-believers but also among many baptized Christians," Pope Leo warned that, as such, they "end up living, at this level, in a state of practical atheism."

And that's the actual Vatican's interpretation.