If your child is autistic or has autistic traits ...

[miscelleni]

1. Do you and/or the child's father also have autistic traits.
2. How did you meet? Was modern technology a factor in how you got together?

I'm asking because I've been listening to the new BBC podcast, The Autism Curve, which is about the exponential increase in autism diagnoses. In episode 1/2 they considered the data and explored how definitions and diagnostics have changed over time. But Episode 3 takes a step back and looks at the science of whether there could also be a real underlying increase with an identifiable cause. An academic from KCL says there is a strong genetic factor to autism, but that it is "unlikely" to explain the numbers (implying, I think, that genetics are random). Another academic, from UCL, says that if there is an environmental factor to be found then it is something that began in the 1990s and is most prevalent in high income countries.

It seems to me that, since the 1990s, people with autistic traits are much more likely to find each other and form relationships due to modern technology. And this is something that has increased exponentially with the uptake of social media.

I felt fairly socially isolated as a teenager in the 80s. I managed ok at school but was averse to phoning people or taking any first steps that might turn acquaintances into friends for fear of rejection. University was difficult for similar reasons. However, I started using email in my first job in 1993 and used it to keep in touch with course-mates from uni who I would otherwise have quickly lost touch with. One of them introduced me to someone she thought I would click with. We started emailing each other and I'm now married to him. We both have traits that probably lie somewhere on the autistic spectrum, as do both of our children, though not impactful enough for us to have sought formal diagnosis.

If I hadn't met DH in that way, I probably would have ended up with one of the many single males I've met in my tech-related job over the years, many of whom have autistic traits.

These days social media brings together many people with strong interests in things, from train spotting, to bird watching, to celebrity fandom, to history buffs, to comic con fans, etc etc. Could it be that the "randomness" of genetics is becoming much less random when it comes to neurodiversity?

Yes, we all are well aware of that but equally, there is a good reason to use it as a shorthand to communicate the type of presentation we are discussing. Fed up with people being so obtuse.

@ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly exactly, no longer used but describes my kids perfectly well.

My son has autism, and I’m pretty sure i do, too.

As i get older, i find myself thinking my mum does, too.
Just some of her behaviour rings a bell for me now.

I often think my dream job would be working a lighthouse!

Working in NHS hospitals was so socially/emotionally draining as you’re constantly communicating with others , everyone is stressed and impatient… I used to go to bed at 7pm after work and stay home and sleep all day on weekends I had off work just to try and regulate myself. Covid in NHS hospital drove me mad as so much stuff ‘didn’t make sense’, eg managers bollocking us for wearing PPE and ‘wasting’ it in March 2020, it wound me up so much I left in July 2020. Personally, I don’t work well in teams 🫣

I agree and I think the other thing developed countries have in common is ever increasing vaccinations. By the time a baby is 8 weeks they’ve had 8 vaccinations, 16 vaccinations by 12 weeks and 23 vaccinations by 16 weeks, by 1 year, 27 vaccinations. This doesn’t include optional ones for RSV/flu, etc.

I personally think this is too much for immature immune systems (and there is a developing link between autism and immunity).

However all of my children had their vaccinations as I couldn’t really choose any to skip.

First child is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis.

It’s a myth that autistic people lack empathy; many of us have too much of it if anything, we just don’t always show it in typical/demonstrative ways.

One of my DC is likely mildly autistic.
I don't think me or his dad are. Didn't meet on dating apps, but at uni.

I am very likely autistic and DH (and his whole male family) have ADHD. Our eldest has both. Youngest seems NT.
My side of the family seem NT.
DH and I met through mutual friends. My friends from uni working with him at the uni. Neither of us were great with the opposite sex, we did alright but neither were overly social or outgoing.
Interesting about it being common that adhd-ers often dating autistic as it's balances out. It's totally that way for us.

My daughter has recently been diagnosed with ASD aged 7 (although I'm still of the impression her symptoms suggest more ADHD) I had Autistic traits as a child & young teen for sure- quite obsessive, quirky in nature, young for my age, socially akward, however alot of it reduced as an older/teen adult especially the social stuff once i started working/ socialising more, so do wonder if it was 'learnt behaviours' from my dad, or maybe I've just least to mask well!
My dad was almost certainly autistic...many traits such as rigid thinking, easily overstimulated, perfectionism, loved routine, socially awkward, found eye contact difficult, anxious and fearful, robotic speech, obsessive, found physical affection difficult, very blunt with no filter etc etc.
He was born early 1940s though so would never have entertained a diagnosis.

Oh that's interesting. I knew that. I always dismissed it because of that.

I’ve just listened to all the episodes, really interesting. I’ve been teaching for 25+ years and it really struck me how things have changed. At first I encountered a very small number of autistic children - profoundly affected, non-verbal, no prospect of an independent life, very challenging to keep them safe - a devastating condition. At the same time there were a few diagnosed with Asperger’s- high functioning but with social difficulties, special interests etc. Now we have masses of children with autism and it includes children who appear to have extremely mild symptoms - we would previously have described them as shy, disorganised, sensitive (imo part of the normal range of human personalities). It definitely ‘diluted’ the significance of the diagnosis for those at the more severe end. In some (not many) cases it is used as an excuse for poor behaviour or to opt out of things. I think we should separate the diagnosis again.

There is going to be environmental and genetic factors, there’s no one type of autism and over time i strongly suspect they will stop having a single diagnosis and instead find lots of underlying causes.

as for environmental factors, I think the trend from the 80’s onwards for not letting kids play out with random neighbourhood kids is a big factor, means those too shy to make arrangements (like me) spend large amounts of their childhood at home watching screens whereas in the 70’s we played out, parents kicked you out you knew no different, and you learned those social skills young, bit law of the jungle but I’m glad i straddled that era because I never invited anyone, but did play out. Today’s youngsters only do things their parents have prearranged, timetabled to the nth degree and because they are mostly organised activities they don’t learn the soft skills. Once those days naturally end they sit playing games in houses rather than learning teenage social skills including rejection, one of my DD’s (has autism diagnosis from early childhood) definitely went down this pathway, we couldn’t get her to do things so she couldn’t do things , self perpetuating because the early skills build to later skills. She’s finally as an adult learnt how to be her in a world where she doesn’t quite fit but can hold her own

This with even more bells on.
Ds has started at a maths school, it’s really interesting. It’s not a special school but lots of the students and teachers have autism so it has been designed as an autism friendly environment: low signage policy, good sound insulation between rooms, dimmable lighting.

How mad is it that many schools have a policy of all teaching happening with open doors? An autistic friend of mine retrained as a teacher and he was coping until he moved to a school where they wouldn’t let him close the door as a reasonable adjustment and he couldn’t cope with the sound overspill from other classrooms.

I suppose it is crudely separated by those with an EHCP and those without. (Though I know that's not helpful to those waiting for an EHC assessment).

One of the interviewees in the podcast made an interesting point about how it is problematic to formally classify an autism diagnosis by the impact it has on daily life because that is something which changes through life - a child who has social difficulties at school may grow into an adult who thrives in their ideal job.

"An autistic friend of mine retrained as a teacher and he was coping until he moved to a school where they wouldn’t let him close the door as a reasonable adjustment and he couldn’t cope with the sound overspill from other classrooms."

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel the open door policy is probably to facilitate "passive supervision" by senior leaders. The classrooms may not have windows from the corridor. My children's school is a new-build and the staff were able to help shape the design, so it was built with internal windows in classroom doors, and in other strategic places to facilitate passive supervision (though sadly not as many windows as they wanted due to budget).

Your friend may need to move schools again and, having learnt from this experience, do a tour before he accepts his next position.

Yes, the impact comment was interesting. I have definitely taught people who you can see will be able to find their niche and thrive, but school is a challenge and we just have try and support them to get through it unscathed.

I will listen to podcasts - thanks for sharing.

DS diagnosed ASD. Grandfather very very academic and lots of traits undiagnosed. Me have some traits (non conforming and gets stressed at social gatherings but also love social gatherings). DF has lots of ADHD type traits and some autistic traits. Grandmother probably had ADHD traits.

So in brief I can see the genetic links quite clearly. None of the people I mentioned met online. But I can see why that theory has some merit.

They were very clear about the genetic aspect too, and I think for some parents this is very difficult to hear.

I think the overspill noise situation in schools is very serious. I find it literal torture to have competing sources of noise so I would simply not be able to access education in such a classroom. It is outrageous that something so easily fixable is permitted. It is not rocket science to see that this is going to cause a lot of problems for many people‘s brains (surely non-ND people would benefit from a better setup too?)

The link between ADHD / autism/ dyslexia is interesting too - I’d like to hear more about that. Many or even most children with a dx have them for more than one condition IME.
I’m also interested in the previous lower dx in girls. The reason given is that autism presents differently girls- my question is is it actually the same thing or did we expand the list of indicators to encompass girls who are actually experiencing something different and deserved recognition of something different. Or wether we medicalised or normal range of female types- is there an element of misogyny?

Totally agree.

(Apart from the very last little bit about it being used as an excuse for poor behaviour.)

I did wonder if there was a link between the rise in people having children later and the rise in autism/ADHD. I had two children in my twenties and one at age 45. The youngest is diagnosed with ADHD and traits of autism. To be fair I can see behaviours in his father (different man to the younger two) who is actually diagnosed with depression .

Yes, that's why I think its key to identify environmental factors that might be influencing genetics.

Meeting your life partner at university, or at a niche interest group, or in a niche job that attracts similar personalities, or online, may just marginally increase the genetic risk compared to a randomised pairing, and perhaps the more niche the interest, the higher the risk. Now that women are more likely to be fully functioning members of society rather than dependants to be randomly picked up and mated with, it's not difficult to see how that might have an impact over time.

But I think I need to qualify the word "risk". Episode 4/5 of the podcast covers autistic identity. Many autistic people at the high functioning end of the spectrum embrace their personality traits and value them. At some point I expect we will drop the D in ASD.

I don't have have an autism diagnosis, but I do have an ADHD diagnosis and autistic traits. My family going back for generations has had plenty of eccentric bohemians/absent minded professors and also people with severe learning difficulties or mental illness. In my circle of friends, loads of the adults got diagnosed after their children did. Most of the couples got together at university, or through mutual friends or hobbies and interests.

I'm on a waiting list for audhd. Fairly sure dh is on the spectrum too - He definitely has traits. I met him through guides and scouts.