Funeral of Pope Francis

[cakeorwine]

Watching it now. I'm not religious - but it is a fascinating watch and a beautiful setting.

If you think the NIcene Creed is difficult try the (seldom used) creed of St Athanasia 🤔

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

You can disagree all you like, but you do realise that no-one actually cares?

Honestly, so many of you sound like a bunch of women from another century, with nothing better to do.

'Consubstantial' rather than 'Of one being' was the big mistake in the new version of the Nicene creed imo. As soon as we've all got used to it they'll change it back.

Honestly, so many of you sound like a bunch of women from another century, with nothing better to do.

@NattyTurtle59 , which facet of me do you hate most, my being a woman, my having lived most of my life in the 20th century, or my thinking that focussing on my relationship with God and the way religious practice reflects that is the best thing I can do?

Consubstantial' rather than 'Of one being' was the big mistake in the new version of the Nicene creed imo. As soon as we've all got used to it they'll change it back.
Yes that's one of the bits I forget!

Looking at this as non-British person (albeit resident in Scotland) I'd say that the rest of the world won't care if or have an opinion about William or Charles attending. It might have been noticed if none of the Royals would have been there, but I doubt anyone cares which one of the senior royals.

But yet here you are, throwing in your tuppence worth. Shame you don't have anything better to do

Did someone say that the British Head of State does not attend the funeral of other Heads of State?

But other Heads of State usually attend the funerals of British Heads of State?

Did the Queen ever attend the funeral of other Heads of State?

Denmark, Jordon, Spain, Sweden, Monaco all sent king/queen /crown Prince. I think the UK was the only European royal to send a sub.

It was explained earlier in the thread that it is thought that the King, as Head of the Church of England, could not attend the funeral of a Pope, because of reasons dating back to Henry VIII and the Reformation. Otherwise, apparently, Queen Elizabeth II set a precedent for herself of not attending funerals at home or abroad, in many cases even of her own close friends or even family, so as not to distract attention from the person who the funeral was for.

I think most people will be able to understand that a man in his 70s with ongoing cancer treatment might find a ceremony like this one too much and you don't really want the distraction of one of the head of states needing medical attention during it.

Edited..

Norway was also represented by the crown prince.

Fair point

I read English and had never come across the word consubstantial 🤣

It’s a bit like those made up words in primary school for grammar … like fronted adverbial

I love “with thy spirit” and the “welcome under my roof” but some of the Creed just doesn’t flow imo

I hardly think one more or fewer head of state in attendance is going to distract at the funeral of a head of state. Fair enough if it was a local funeral of a friend, it could be distracting, but not at that of a head of state.

The head of church thing isn't really relevant as they don't go to any funerals abroad so wouldn't go to one for any head of state abroad.

Again, I would have thought the king should have gone either as well or instead.

William, the sub” as you call him, is a “Crown Prince” though - i.e. the first in line for the throne.

As mentioned, Crown Prince Haakon and Crown Princess Mette-Marit represented Norway.

No one from the Dutch Royal family attended (pre-existing Dutch National day Events).

And as I said in response to that, I think the king of Norway should have gone, as should the Dutch.

The Norwegian King is in his late 80s and frail (he walks with two crutches), moreover the Queen, also in her late 80s, was hospitalised earlier this week with breathing difficulties. Expectations need to bend to realities.

Fair point re the Norwegian king if he is too frail to travel generally. UK king travels and, apparently, UK monarch never goes to any funerals abroad so it's not a health issue, but rather a policy decision.

Also, there is a difference between Catholic and non Catholic countries. Generally, the Catholic royalty turn out in force (several family members), but non Catholic royals do not.

The UK Monarchy is in a unique situation - our King/Queen is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and, for better or worse, in a single person represents the Church of England, the historic reasons for its existence, as well as all the evils perpertrated by both churches in the name of the same God. For that reason, the King is not just another head of state, but the Archbishop of Canterbury (in the role of Primate of the Anglican Church), can be just another faith leader. Complicated, isn't it?

Honestly it is fine. Our king came to Italy very recently.

Our prime minister, foreign secretary and prince of wales came to the funeral of the pope. I would be shocked if anyone in Italy or in the church or in fact the former pope himself would consider that a lack of respect.

The uk is clearly on friendly, respectful terms with both the catholic church and the state of Italy and I don't see any issues here.

This was the approach the late Queen of England took, as I understand it. Whether in setting this protocol, she had an inflated sense of her own importance and standing in the world of international dignitaries, is up to you to speculate.

Will you write to him at Buckingham Palace to tell him so?

I was referring to the norwegian king so there wouldn't be much point. However, apparently he is too frail to travel generally so fair enough him not attending.