Thread 22 Starmer - Running up to local elections

[BIossomtoes]

Here we go. Previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5305431-thread-21-starmer-casting-nasturtiums?page=40&reply=143731831

Which "you" would that be?

Nonsense, I am willing to listen to peoples concern, I even share some of them.

Scapegoating asylum seekers is not something I will do.

Maybe their immigration policy will work maybe it won't but I think people are willing to give Reform a chance, people who feel betrayed by both the Conservatives and Labour.

And I'm sure Farage's constituents would like him to work from Clacton for once, rather than from USA. The guy is a total dickhead.

I’m sorry I don’t have the answers to these questions. On this subject, we’re in a bind and no one really knows what to do. Unless we as a nation agree to more draconian measures. Are we at that point?

Jenkyns immigration plan is putting people in tents, how is that going to stop the boats and solve the affordable housing crisis?

And you are spectacularly missing the point.

Framing asylum seekers as ‘undocumented young men’ aka as ‘illegal immigrants’ is straight from the prejudice and racism of Reform. It’s language that’s used deliberately to goad and anger the ignorant.

Along with claims about hotels etc.

Oh, and Labour has never just been for the working classes. I’m as middle class as anyone could be, but have always been a Labour voter (bar once or twice when I’ve engaged in tactical voting), because I believe in the values that they espouse.

Nobody's scapegoating them on here. Do you think the boat crossings should stop, does it not concern you that after nearly 10 months this issue seems to be getting worse?

I certainly hope not

Just look at the US and their deportations to El Salvador's prisons.

But they are‘ undocumented young men’.

I have told you many times that I want the boat crossings to stop. Nobody should have to risk their lives to seek asylum in the UK.

I am concerned about how we dehumanise the people once they are here and basically blame them for the state the UK is in.

Do you really want to end up with tent camps?

When did the ‘men in boats’ phenomenon start ? Certainly not under labour. Maybe look at the cause to work out the solution. But no one wants to do that it appears.

They may be ‘undocumented’ @derxa but that’s a specific phrase chosen to make them sound illegal (along with a side order of ‘dangerous’ )

I live near a hotel that houses asylum seekers, problems are caused by protesters, not the 'young men'

You wouldn't even know they were there if it wasn't for the stupid facebook posts

Lorries were used to smuggle people in, then there was that tragic incident where 54 people died and everyone was rightly horrified, so the Government at the time clamped down and had stricter controls at the ports. I think if I remember correctly the criminals involved were given jail sentences.

Well in my town, my daughter works in a place which is close to where these migrants are housed. All young men who at one time were hanging around in the car park where she works until one of the managers got the police involved as two of the men started fighting.

But some of them are illegal. Even Starmer said that the small boat crossings were a risk to our security.

Let’s not forget that by definition they’re illegal, as there aren’t any legal routes for asylum that they can use.

Once they claim asylum, they are not illegal. They can only claim asylum on British soil.

Sorry, but yet again people have fallen into the trap of suggesting that immigration is the only topic worthy of discussion.

Eg Social housing is fucked because we stopped building it (no I dont mean affordable housing I mean traditional social housing).
We built 80k council houses in 1980. 80k!!!!!
It was down to 400 pa when John Major left office.
Blair did fuck all. What a bloody waste.
Brown and Healey began the reversal of this - unwinding Conservative legislation to allow councils to borrow more to build.
Cameron benefitted from this move albeit their numbers include affordable housing as well as actual social housing - but it was all on a very small scale basis that didnt catch us up to where we needed to be. Whereas 12,000 might have been built in 2012, 50,000 were bought under the revamped Right to Buy.

Labour have atleast corrected the policy legislation to allow councils to have the opportunity to build more, I'll give them that.

The NHS's productivity is down in part because austerity led to £ for capital investment in infrastructure being diverted to day to day spending. Buckets under holes in the roof stuff. We have fewer beds, scanners, up to date equipment because of this. You can employ more doctors but if you dont have the wards to put patients on you are pissing in the wind.

The Conservatives shifted more responsibilities on to councils (statutory ones) AND cut central funding leaving councils with no option but to charge their voters and businesses more.

And on.

Austerity ruined public services.
Brexit cut GDP and therefore available spending.

Both were policies that Farage would support (although neither went far enough for him) and somehow people trust his instincts.

Immigration - particularly those crossing the Channel - skims the bloody surface of outstanding issues. If it stopped tomorrow the problems above will not be resolved.

Its about time people start pressing Farage and friends on more meaningful topics.

Well, apart from the 25% who are women and children, I suppose so. And the men who aren’t young - it’s not recorded what the age range of the men is. I expect it is mostly younger men though - if you needed someone from your family to make a very dangerous journey in the hope they could help the rest get out later, who would you send? Your granny? Your niece and her baby? Or your fit and strong young nephew?
People talk about ‘undocumented’ young men, or worse ‘men of fighting age’ to make them sound scary, but there are very good reasons the majority are younger men.

Couldn't agree more. I have no idea why the working class believe the crap about Garage being one of them with his pint down the pub.

My 6th form student daughter came out of college telling me about the definitions they discussed in class - what is an asylum seeker, when is someone an illegal immigrant. She's better informed now than the average reform voter who believes their made up rubbish.

Not exclusively, but on the whole it's education that makes a difference to how people view reform IMO.

But why do these particular people need to make this very dangerous journey? There must be millions of people in their position in their country of origin. Perhaps I just haven’t read enough first hand accounts from the asylum seekers themselves. I’m honestly trying to understand.

https://www.rescue.org/uk/article/7-reasons-people-risk-their-lives-cross-channel-small-boats

@derxa how does immigration affect you ?
FWIW I live in a really poor area of the NW and I’m not happy with the way the demographics have changed in our town. But I can see that Farage has no answers. If anything his policies overall will make life worse here. Sadly our labour council made some genuinely bad decisions and frankly weren’t very competent at the same time as we had huge huge cuts to public spending enforced by Westminster. It was a perfect storm and I’m afraid that’s why reform are picking up the votes. I’m just relieved we didn’t have a vote here this time.