Thread 22 Starmer - Running up to local elections

[BIossomtoes]

Here we go. Previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5305431-thread-21-starmer-casting-nasturtiums?page=40&reply=143731831

But these are general points from a biased article. I can relate to the story of a young Afghan who arrived here and was part of Freddie Flintoff’s Field of Dreams program. He now plays professional cricket and is taking a BTec.

I’ve said it doesn’t. I live between my farm in Scotland and an affluent market town in SE England.

This baffles me derxa. You’re an intelligent woman, I know from your other posts. I don’t get how you can’t understand that some people will be 8n more danger, or have more resources to be able to get out (either financial or physical) or that different people have different tolerance for difficult situations in their home country. Take Jews in Europe before the war. Some left, some didn’t. It tended not to go so well for those that didn’t. Why didn’t they all leave? There’s your answer.
Incidentally, your later comment about the young man in Flintoff’s series shows you are probably right in saying you need to look at individual stories. Think of these asylum seekers as actual people, all with their own stories, hopes, dreams and not a mass of ‘undocumented young men’ - as has been said already this phrase is used to make them sound scary. I’m not at all saying every single one is genuine/pleasant/an asset to the country, but the vast majority will be more like the young cricketer than the image you are being encouraged to fear.

But I don’t subscribe to your rosy view. Surely these people are a mixed bag just like any group. But what they must have in common is that they are resourceful and brave. How do we harness these qualities

I actually say they are a mixed bag in the post. Like all people of every group everywhere most are fine/lovely and a minority are not. I don’t express a rosy view.
We harness their resourcefulness and bravery by getting them processed quickly so that they can start to rebuild their lives and at the same time contribute to society. We don’t do it by making the system deliberately slow and demonising them.

I was reading some government stats earlier this morning, which shows that the majority of those arriving in small boats are men aged 18-39. The piece also pointed out that the reason why it’s mainly men, is that they’re prepared (and possibly more physically able, I’d have thought) to take the risk of the journey. Their hope being (and the reality) that once they are in the UK and have had their case agreed, they will then send for their wives/children, who can arrive in a more conventional way.

Are Labour speeding up the system? Do we have evidence?

You're calling the IRC biased? Well yes, I guess they're biased in favour of rescuing people from the most difficult situations that we can only have nightmares about.

You call it bias, I call it human kindness.

Exactly this. I've spoken to a good number of asylum seeking men who came first in the hope of a) surviving the journey and b) bringing their family after.

It’s a complex issue. They’ve said they will, but we won’t know until there’s a full year’s figures I guess. What we do know is that the Tories basically stopped processing and allowed a backlog to build.
I wasn’t really making a party political point there though, just saying that doing this hasn’t been very successful in harnessing the talents of asylum seekers. And Reform just ramp up the demonising rhetoric, so they aren’t the answer.

Went to Mow Cop a few weeks ago, it's a fabulous outcrop amid the Cheshire plain. Can't believe that the Conservatives have lost control, truly damning for Badenoch. Broody pic attached. A reflection of my mood. Plus Reform won a town council seat in my area.

100% this

The majority of those arriving in small boats are men. In the year to 31 March 2024, 75% (22,357) were male and aged 18 or over (excluding those of unknown age or sex). Another 16% (4,630) of arrivals in the same period were children (under 18). These proportions have been stable over time, and similar to those observed in asylum applicants more broadly (72% and 19%, respectively, in the year to March 2024). One reason for the higher share of men among asylum seekers, in general, is the danger associated with irregular migration journeys. In many cases, female and minor family members join later through family reunification routes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days#small-boats-data

I need to stop looking at the local rag 🫣

What is it saying?

100% agree again.

people make this such a divide.

If you don’t like the ideas for solving the issue you are for the small boats.

If you say anything against simply shoving them off the nearest cliff into the sea you’re apparently part of the problem! X

I have yet to meet anyone who thinks the small boat crossings are a good thing and shouldn't be stopped.

Yes, the polarisation is ridiculous. If you say you can’t turn the boats back due to the law, you are told you definitely want all the boats all the time.
Nope. I don’t want any. It’s stupidly dangerous and exploitative apart from anything else. I want safe routes and sensible dialogue about sharing the problem with other nations, given that climate change is going to lead to more migration (so Reform following entirely the wrong policies as per). I do think people might be surprised at the amounts of people we should take on a sensibly shared basis though. We really don’t take many compared to most other countries involved.

I think allowing asylum seekers to work would go a long way towards improving things. It would reduce costs and facilitate the integration and settlement process.

Reform are cleaning up in rural Co Durham.

How depressing.

@derxa

Are Labour speeding up the system? Do we have evidence?

If you’re really interested, the government keeps records of the numbers of arrivals (through all channels, not just small boats) so you could go and have a look to see if you can answer this question.

Meanwhile -
The quantity of UK goods exports is lower now than in 2016 or 2021.

The UK is the only country in the G7 that has this record. #Brexit

look how well Farage’s project worked out.

I'm glad of this thread being balanced re immigration- some are dreadfully full of false facts and horrible ideas.
Thing is people fleeing their country are not going to stop - they are likely to increase if anything as climate change impacts and wars continue. A naive thought is there should be a fully global response to ensure everyone's safe living conditions- obviously that will never happen.
The only way to seek asylum in the U.K. is to arrive illegally and claim it - btw the asylum claim actually means they are not illegal immigrants - we are an island, lorry loads were effectively stopped, so boats are the only way right now and even if big gangs were stopped (as they should be) then people are desperate and creative and would continue to move countries. Not sure why some assume they should just stay home to die as they're an inconvenience to the U.K. but obviously a few people do - or are persuaded to think that way.
Thing is once they've arrived why can't we see them as people - whether they're genuine or not (breaking news that most are), even whether it causes issues re cost or not, they are still human beings. Trying to set fire to their living spaces last year made me feel quite sick. This is whipped up by the focus on small boats when actually you're pretty likely to have come across actual illegal migrants in your everyday life, overstayers are the biggest sector, but as they're not pointed out daily by certain media channels then they're treated normally most of the time. Though hatred spreads through to all sectors unfairly - My late mum's care agency manager, lovely lady, hid in her home for several days last year and ran out of milk partway through - I was ashamed to be honest.
All parties need to be honest about the facts of immigration and honest about how it is best addressed, or if it can be - none are really but definitely do not want an immigration system built on hatred - it makes us all poorer as a society.
If all immigrants disappeared overnight then there'd be a new group of people to blame by morning for the U.K. not being some Utopia. Othering people is not helping a cohesive society at all - feel like we are still pack animals in the wild sometimes.

Absolutely, @MsJinks 🙏🏻

In small mercies, my own ward still has its three lib dems. It looks like that is the case for the city in general.