Is being a pilot a good job?

[thecatislying]

One of my nephews is looking into it. We can find all the official info about the ways to qualify, time it takes, how to do it, salary expectations, what the job is like, etc, but we don't know anyone who has done this job, or even who knows someone who has done it.

Nephew is practical, reliable, very good at maths an science, gets good grades. Not really enjoying school, doesn't like writing, not thrilled about the idea of 4 more years at university so exploring other ideas.

If you have personal experience of either being a pilot or know someone who is one, what's your thoughts? Is it a good job to have?

I think if you were almost literally confined to a very small number of routes that might be true, in fact a pp mentioned a friend who has suffered that sort of rostering. Even then no two flights would be the same, there's usually the odd, hopefully very very benign, curveball that gets thrown into the mix on most sectors to help stave off any chance of boredom.

Usually though, and certainly at the bigger airlines, there is a quite bit of variety in the rostering both in terms of routes and times of day you are working...whether an individual has much say in the rostering process is another matter, it varies massively from airline to airline.

Can’t believe people are saying being a pilot is boring 😳 How is flying the world more boring than e.g sitting in an office or at home on a laptop as an accountant or conveyancing solicitor etc? I imagine it’s one of the least boring careers.

I'd imagine being down route is fun, but actually being I'm the air for hours... it's like I find sitting on the motorway boring even though I know I'll enjoy it when I get there.

I've just completed my PPL after a year of training. It was always meant to be a hobby, but having just ditched my horrible career as a teacher, it's dug its claws in and I'm going to try and get a commercial licence and switch careers.
It's not going to be easy. I'm 35 and I have a 5 year old DD but it'll take a few years of training and my plan isn't necessarily to fly long haul full time. I'm thinking part time potentially and only short haul or smaller scale/national commercial flying. I'd also really like to instruct PPL which would be fantastic with my teaching background.

Thing is, I absolutely love flying so for me I'm turning my passion into a job. You do get many younger pilots doing it for the glamour and money (it is well paid) and many of them find it boring but I find aviation fascinating, and it's a big passion for me.

I think I'm going to love it for that reason.

If you did do the pay >£100k....are you guaranteed a job if tou pass the course?
Seems a bit scary to me!
My son is interested but it's so much money!

Aviation is a highly cyclical industry. That has always been the case & it always will be. During the good times, such as now when the industry is benefiting from the very strong US economy, strong $, relatively low & stable oil prices and a massive post-covid tourism boom, a newly qualified pilot’s chances of getting a job will be pretty good.

But when economic tough times, oil price shocks & recessions happen, aviation is always hit first & always hit hardest. As we saw during Covid, airlines respond by restructuring, storing surplus aircraft in the desert and forcing through waves of redundancies. I saw this cycle happen several times during my time in the industry. Redundancy is a rite of passage for airline people, and I was made redundant twice. Newly qualified pilots’ chances of getting a job during these downturns would be very poor.

You can actually be pretty busy up front..

I think.one misconception is that "the autopilot does all the work..'..and the pilots just stare out of the window.

Reality is the autopilot (simply a dumb machine) handles the basics (but is always monitored 'cos sometimes it can be really dumb)..freeing the pilots up to some extent to handle all the crap the passengers aren't aware of
.

e.g. liasing with ATC for things like route clearances, maybe weather avoidance, getting weather updates for airports along the route, liasing with the cabin, liasing with the company (radio or datalink) and then approaching destination there usually a briefing to be done, the list goes on.

It's not a case of flapping around doing lots at once but there is definitely stuff needs doing and not too much time for staring out of the window on short sectors.

I never operated shorthaul myself but I sat on the flightdeck jumpseat on shorthaul services a few times and those pilots didn't get much time to get bored...(they were quick at eating though).

Longhaul (my gig) was definitely more relaxed, you could run things at a gentler pace than shorthaul could, but even there you could usually find something that needed doing.

I honestly don’t think you really know what you are talking about. No one flies London to Majorca twice a day several times a week. For a start, if you manage to fit all of that in without any delays at all it would be a 13.30hr minute day at the very minimum, assuming the fastest possible turnaround times. Most airlines will mix and match destinations, and there will be a few night stops thrown in for variation. European flying is challenging flying in busy airspace, with huge variations in the weather conditions you might find even on a short tour - you could find yourself landing into Gibraltar with a short and complicated approach with a tricky crosswind, next up an alpine airport such as Salzburg or Chambery where special training is needed to carry out the complex approaches into mountainous terrain, then a flight with an automatic landing into foggy Jersey (which takes nerves of steel, btw, to trust the aircraft to put you down in the right place when you can’t even see it!) then a busy domestic sector with passengers transferring on to and from other flights with tight connections, and finally a charter flight up to the Arctic Circle to see Santa, and you’d need to be well clued up on flights into and out of cold weather conditions. Only someone clueless about the industry would think this boring!

I’ve done 15 years of Shorthaul, btw, and 22 years of Longhaul, some of which were overlapping as I flew 2 different aircraft types. So I feel reasonably well qualified to have an opinion on this!

I'd like to think pilots aren't just sitting there staring into space. They're in charge of machines. There's always things to monitor. You're always moving and as I was taught during my PPL, always be ahead of the aircraft.

Others who ARE pilots (as I'm not), feel free to disagree with me...

My best friend at that age really wanted to become a pilot, but was declined because of failing an eye test and having sports injuries.

So my advice (and as I said, real pilots can correct me if I'm wrong), I'd advise waiting a little more, and of course study something else, just so he's not putting all his eggs in one basket, as you never know what might happen.

I wouldn't argue with that, though there is a counter POV which I'll get to eventually.

There's not just potential health issues, it's possible to fail training but no idea of the failure rate at the schools, and there's also a danger in an economic downturn of there being no or very slow recruitment when the individual finishes flying training...any sort of second string might be useful.

The major "con" to that argument is that the sooner you get into the airlines, especially the big ones, the sooner you start building senority - and that can govern everything...roster choice, time to command upgrade, vulnerability to redundancy if there are lay offs.

You need a crystal ball to work out the best course of action TBH.

Be interested to hear the POV of others

You are correct, you do have to pass a stringent initial medical, and then maintain it annually for the duration of your career. It is wise to have your medical in the bag before beginning training, and any flying school would tell you that. And yes, you can lose it at any point in your life. Having said that, it is quite unusual for a young person to fail their medical. Eyesight is a common one, but you can have most common eyesight problems that can be corrected by glasses, except for colour blindness. I don’t know what sort of sports injury you would have to have to fail a medical, as most of the middle aged pilots I know these days spend inordinate amounts of time discussing how they are getting their sports injuries fixed. I’ve had 2 lots of surgery myself to repair sports injuries.

It’s also not a bad idea to have another career in mind as backup, but tbh a degree and a pilot’s licence both cost so much these days that for many it’s one or the other. Pilots do, however, have the sort of attributes that make them sought after in other careers outside of aviation. I only know a few pilots who have left the profession to do something else, many have a second income stream though. And I do know a lot who were qualified in another field before flying.

As for seniority, this does affect everything - rosters, staff travel, command, etc. but even that is luck of the draw. The intake I joined my airline in was one of their biggest ever recruitment drives, and I was a lucky one of 180 trainees taken on out of 40000 applicants. My application form was picked up towards the end of the recruitment process, and I ended up nearly 150 places junior to people who had sent their application forms in on the same day as I did. You can make efforts to get into an airline job as quickly as you can, but at the end of the day, luck plays a huge role too.

I know a pilot, who loves his job. He did a lot of gliding in his late teens/early twenties which was a cheap way to get a lot of flying hours under his belt and also a good way to really get a feeling for flying. He could try a few lessons and see if he gets the bug.

Worked in this industry for almost 20 years and I’m married to one so I know a fair bit about it. I’ll put it like this - I really hope my DC does not want to go down that route.
It’s an incredibly niche role that will rely on heavy investment to get to where they are which make many unhappy pilots stay in the role. Whilst many I know are passionate about the flying aspect itself, the constant issues about grappling for better terms and conditions, pay, work/life balance etc weighs people down. Airlines nowadays will get every last minute out of their workforce and it’s exhausting.
having said that - it provides amazing opportunities to see the world if in the right company. Would my husband choose it if he had his time again? No. Would I want to be married to a pilot if given the choice? No.

I’ve worked in the industry for nearly 30 years, and I actually am a pilot. Would I choose it again? In a heartbeat!

Yes, the company can be a pita, but the adventures I’ve had! I’m lucky to be supported by a man who’s been behind me every step of the way. I have reserved my seniority in fleet and seat above promotion or chasing the fashionable fleet, which means I can practically write my own roster and only fly 2 trips a month. Yes, I get paid less, but I have a lovely life.

For the junior pilots with the worst rosters it is a much harder but much more lucrative lifestyle. They say you only have to be junior in an airline once, but I see ambitious young pilots (usually men) climbing the ladder as fast as they can at the very first opportunity they get, taking a command, moving from SH to LH, and always positioning themselves onto the bottom of the next seniority list up. This can be a truly miserable experience, taking all the dross trips, working every weekend and bank holiday. Utter lack of control over where and when you fly. If this is what your husband did then no doubt it has been a miserable existence but also no doubt you have enjoyed the income which came with it. I don’t have my children in private education, or buy a new Porsche or Tesla every 3 years, as many of my colleagues seem to.

It’s one profession, but there are many ways to go about it, and as with many careers once you are in, it is what you make it.

@backinthebox really interesting post thank you. I really want to do it but having a 5 year old DD I'm concerned about sacrificing family life. I've spent the last 5 years being the 'main' parent doing all the school runs and as much as I love my daughter, I'm career minded and now I'm out of teaching, I want something new. I'm surrounded by commercial pilots at my flying club and I'm so jealous.

Is it possible to start part time? I've been told it is but not sure how amenable airlines will be with that. I know I'd want to fly short haul and avoid overnight stays if possible but I know that won't always be possible.
I have a husband so it's not like I'm on my own, it's just mum guilt I guess.

Make sure he's aware of class 1 medical requirements. Don't be in a hurry to part with serious cash to uniformed flight training schools. You need the hours as well as the licences to get a job. Look at self starter plus hour building routes or in-airline training schemes. I'd recommend getting a degree in a related engineering subject. Downside being away from home etc. Can be inherently lonely being away all the time, transient colleagues, it becomes a lifestyle after a while and hard to be back in normal life.

@CoffeeTable22 no, it is not possible to start part time. The skills needed to fly an aircraft include many actions which are only embedded through frequent repetition, so until you have those skills embedded you have to stay full time. This is also the reason why pilots generally start out on short haul, in order to build the muscle memory to carry out both emergency drills and standard operating procedures almost as an automatic response (think about how comfortable you are driving your own car you drive every day, but how discombobulated you feel getting into a hire car where the windscreen wipers and indicator are on the opposite sides!)

In my airline we must initially complete a minimum of 1500 hours flying (approximately 2 years) before being allowed to apply for part time. 1500 hours is the required number of hours to upgrade your Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL) to an Air Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL) which is considered the standard for all airline pilots.

It is very tough with small children and being brutally honest it’s not something I think I would have been able to manage. I was well established as a pilot when I had my first child, and returned to work part time after that and have stayed that way since. Having said that I know pilots who achieved incredible things after having babies. It’s all about how much you are prepared to have that first few years of hard work to pass the exams then haphazard rosters. In a way, it’s about the same level of madness that the first few years of medicine are - very few junior doctors manage it with children in tow, but the odd one does. I’m sorry I can’t be more encouraging but the first couple of years (as with many highly qualified professions) are tough and work intensive.

@backinthebox thanks for your honesty. I guess I chose the wrong career to begin with. If I could turn back time I'd have done it before having kids, but oh well.

I was hoping by the time I'd finished modular training (which will most likely take 2-3 years plus) and get a job, at which point my DD will be 8-9, it will be more manageable as my DH can be the more flexible one.
The other option was to get my CPL, instruct for a few years then apply to the airlines once my DD is even older. I know somebody who's doing that at the minute as he's got two children under 5.
I also know a single mum with two kids (one of which with severe SEN( who is doing her ATPLs. She's determined though.

I would say teaching could well be a very viable option. You would build your experience much more quickly with the frequent take offs and landings, and it would be much more likely you would be able to teach part time sooner. You would be well advised to make sure you have spoken to people who’ve made the step from instructor to airline in recent years so you understand the process. I’m no help here, because I never taught and all the ex-instructors I fly with did it decades ago.

I know several pilots who are or have been single parents and I’m in awe of them. Some are women whose husbands left them and they carry on flying with children at home. I know a couple (male and female) whose partner died, they are made of stuff I cannot even begin to imagine. A supportive spouse makes all the difference. It irks me no end when I’ve been told by managers or trainers in the past ‘most pilots make sure their wife looks after things at home while they are training.’ I need to get me one of those wives. 🙄🙄 But seriously, your DH has to be onside. The training is intensive, the hours are weird, and you frequently don’t get home on time (a snowfall in Vienna can mean you are 4, 5 or even 24hrs late home. A volcano erupting mean many of my colleagues were 2 weeks late getting home from work! Latest I’ve ever arrived home was 2 days after a computer failure in my base airport.)

Good luck with it all - it is a fab job. I’ve just taken my family on a trip with me because it’s the Easter hols, we had a great time. For all the hard work, there are also great perks, and for most pilots I know it’s been a hugely enjoyable career.

@Middlechild3

Agree with a lot of that post but for the sake of those sponsoring relatives going through training I'm not sure, that in UK/ Europe,

You need the hours as well as the licences to get a job

Is that valid anymore.

Lots of airlines now recruit straight out of the schools, so they are choosing individuals with just their school hours...so maybe a couple of hundred in the logbook before the start of type rating on a commercial type.

Somewhat controversially there's now the airline tailored Multi-crew Pilots Licence (MPL) specifically designed to move ab-initios from zero hours to the right hand seat of an airliner PDQ.

I'm not saying I'm fan of a lot of the above but the traditional hours building route is a bit infra dig these days...

The US is very different.

some great informative responses here especially from @backinthebox
i always wanted to be an airline pilot, I’m too old now with some minor health issues that would almost certainly count me out

other than the very unpredictable hours, one other concern of mine would be how sedentary it is. Worse than an office job surely.

@Clearinguptheclutter

one other concern of mine would be how sedentary it is. Worse than an office job surely

It's something to be aware of but you can (just about) get up and stretch on the flightdeck, and even on two pilot operations short breaks off the flight deck are allowed to amongst other things keep the circulation going.

Very/Ultra long haul you'll have at least one relief pilot to allow extended breaks.

@Clearinguptheclutter yes, it is very sedentary and you often have a First Class galley directly behind you staffed by professional feeders! (Ooh, look, would you like a cup of tea and some chocolates? What about some soup, the soup is lovely today. Clotted cream and scones? Calories in the air don’t count…. 🤣🤣) OTOH, you stay in hotels with gyms, swimming pools and beaches. We have a company-wide club that provides discounted access to bicycles, yoga classes, ski lift passes, lots of exercise options. The time down route is often filled with socialising but we also get in our exercise. You need to be aware of the effect the lifestyle can have, and counteract it. I train hard - I’m an endurance sportswoman outside of work. I work with many pilots who’ve done Iron Mans, climbed Everest, Marathon de Sable, etc. There’s a lot of support among pilots for a healthy lifestyle. The job attracts goal-driven people, so it’s not surprising that many of them keep themselves fit and well.