Family holidays as an autistic adult - argh.

[TheWayTheLightFalls]

I’m mainly writing to get things off my chest, but any advice would be welcome too.

I’m autistic, level 2 so moderate needs. There are many aspects of my life in which I function very well and I expect most people would be surprised at my diagnosis, but I have broadly arranged my life in a way that makes things better for me and minimises stress. I have three children (shouldn’t have, but they are here and the back story is long and irrelevant). On a daily basis I am just holding it together and trying to do my best by them.

DH fancied a holiday this school break. I really didn’t want the kind of holiday he proposed but he whined and beat me down with how lovely it would be and how much he would be doing and how he would plan everything. We are one day in, in Europe. So far:

I don’t cope well with changes in routine, which is basically holidays in a nutshell. I knew this, and here it is happening. It’s a bit better for me in places we have been before, because it’s more familiar, but that didn’t happen this time.

Airports/public transport etc - loud, crowded. Arrived late and needed to sprint through the terminal.

The accommodation is smaller than our home so I’m constantly surrounded by other people’s chewing, tv, chairs scraping etc.

I am uncomfortable in unfamiliar environments, and can’t shake that I am using someone else’s bed / towels / cutlery. Should have brought my own, forgot. I’m like this at home too - I don’t eat in other people’s home etc. “Uncomfortable” sounds mild but in practice it’s closer to disgust, so I am not eating much or able to be comfortable anywhere.

I’m just unsettled and sad, and then beating myself up for not enjoying things.

If we were at home one child would be at a holiday club that she loves, younger two would be in nursery. I’d be in my own home. Then in the afternoon I would pick them up and we’d get an ice cream, maybe go to the park - they’d be equally happy and I wouldn’t be on the edge of a meltdown.

DH is also pushing all the usual domestic crap onto me, which doesn’t help. And in a day or so will get pissy and angry at me because I am spoiling his holiday. And then will get a migraine which will push yet more childcare and domestic crap onto me.

The evening before flying I ended up taking visiting family to a West End show, ie staying up late and being tired, spending 2+ hours in a loud and crowded theatre, and coming home with a cracking headache. So that didn’t help. Again, very much “everyone else seems to enjoy this so why can’t I?”

Then we will come home and everyone will assume that I am rested and refreshed after my lovely holiday. I feel like DH knows that I am autistic, except when he fancies a picture perfect holiday and then I need to magically just snap out of it and facilitate things.

But things that avoid meltdowns (like not going on stressful holidays) are also apparently unreasonable and forcing the family to live a "half life", so what exactly are autistic people meant to do? Bearing in mind, as has been pointed out multiple times, many autistic adults (especially women) didn't get diagnosed in childhood because it was different when we grew up, so we spent decades just struggling through and didn't even realise we were autistic (before the "you shouldn't have dared to have a relationship and family" comments). We cannot just not be autistic because autism makes life difficult. Do you think we like having meltdowns or something? It's humiliating and distressing and damages relationships. Criticising us for wanting to avoid things that cause them and criticising us for having them creates an unwinnable situation. There isn't a solution that ends up with "and the autistic person stops having meltdowns forever, and is able to enjoy a stressful holiday like a good old-fashioned normal person instead of being annoying," no matter how much effort we put in. If the answer is "they should leave their family," then the NT partner is just as capable of doing so if they want to.

Perhaps issues such as screaming meltdowns, crying and the like infront of children cools be addressed

Who are the people doing this @dovess ? It’s not me, I’m not sure it’s any other adult on this thread.

I don’t do any of these things. When I was younger a meltdown would look like self harm. Nowadays it’s more likely to be aggression directed at others (not in my family - random bad drivers etc), or severe headaches, or intense brain fog. I can’t speak for every autistic woman but just like most other mums I tend to shield my kids from distressing situations. So crying at a funeral - ok. Crying because I’m not coping emotionally - not in front of kids.

@dovess I think some of the posters on here, including yourself may not have had much exposure to autistic adults beyond what you read in here, and perhaps your own partner perhaps. That is a skewed view as there is quite a narrow population sample of mumsnet and generally the people who post aren’t the ones who are happy or they wouldn’t be looking for support. There are many families doing fine.

Yes I have meltdowns. I hate it. No one having a meltdown ever wants anyone to witness it, it’s shameful and distressing and leaves me drained of energy the entire day/next day. They are triggered by overwhelming and stressful situations. And as the poster above stated, we are in a lose lose situation because to avoid our triggers means limiting social interaction/busy places and then we get criticised for this.

And the OP didn’t say a thing about meltdowns or any autistic behaviour really, yet autistic adults have had a load of abuse directed at us on this thread. If the OP was wheelchair bound im pretty certain the thread wouldn’t have escalated into a disability bashing thread.

Do you know someone who does this? It sounds like you're assuming everyone with asd does it and you have a chip on your shoulder.

OP, it sounds like your dh did not plan the holiday with your limitations in mind. He may be NT but he is disorganised and chaotic. That would drive me mad, speaking as an NT person. I am not surprised you are doubly stressed by him. PS I hated holidays with little ones too. Just exhaustion in the different setting with the added stress of winding up for the trip and then unravelling backwards after the trip.

Your family should be grateful you are even on this trip. I am sure you will make the best of it, masking as you do to exhaustion

Now with the benefit of hindsight, you have a better idea of what works and does not work on family holidays with little ones and hopefully give you ideas for the future, whether you find the time to plan it yourself or make your conditions explicitly clear to your dh.

When the children were young, we only ever went on holidays in the UK in a car and self-catering so that we could eat in in the evenings.

No of course I don’t. What I was suggesting is the holiday you are describing doesn’t sound restful at all for you but it doesn’t have to be a total disaster. If it was me I would be trying to work out how it could be used to improve things or morphed to be more bearable/useful. Some situations are insurmountable and for families with multiple faces of autism this is a constant push and pull. My own opinion is that we all grow from friction, and are better for including very different needs in our lives.

It sounds like you are an apologist for ND people who do not want to find coping strategies and ways to manage having a normal family life (despite OP saying she wishes she didn’t have her children) and to ensure their children don’t have to recover from a childhood of tip toeing around their parents to not ‘trigger’ them.

I have indeed had plenty of experience of autistic adults and indeed parents and from the experience of the child of a parent with autism- it isn’t easy.

In fact it is a half existence of enduring their routines and dancing around what they can and can’t cope with. It is no different to dealing with any other condition that children are offered young carer support for - however children of ND adults are just expected to get on with it.

Again, if parents of ND children are free to complain about how difficult it is and seek support - why are children left to struggle and suffer through it? Threads on here and other forums will show you that many adult children choose not to have relationships with their ND parents due to their childhood experiences.

I’m sorry you’ve had such a hard upbringing. That certainly isn’t the experience of my children. They all engage in plenty of activities/clubs, go on holidays, go on day trips, see friends etc just like your lucky kids with their NT parent. They are all very happy and are kind people who are aware that certain family members may find things difficult at times and as a result are all compassionate and considerate people. But they certainly don’t miss out on anything.

I accept that there will be some autistic parents who struggle. But there are also many NT parents who struggle. You absolutely cannot and should not make such sweeping judgements of autistic parents based on your own experience. And yes the pool of mums complaining on Mumsnet is rather narrow and not reflective of the diverse population. And is usually also about men…but then mumsnet is used by mums, and is not necessarily reflective of autistic mums and how we are forced to get in with things. I feel I’ve made my points clear enough on this thread and have nothing further to add.

Well it’s day one so get yourself out to a shop and buy some cutlery and bedsheets.

You have only just very recently been diagnosed. Maybe write a list for next time and set an alarm?

Id be utterly miserable and end up with a headache if DH dictated that my kids went to nursery and holiday club instead of having a break all together because he had suddenly been diagnosed with mild autism after years of hiding it from me.

How can you think it's day one?

It is right there in the OP

That sounds suspiciously like telling an autistic person not to be so autistic. Would you tell someone with a broken leg to stop whining about how much in pain they were ?
How could OP be hiding a condition she didn’t know she had ?

Honestly I think I am NT - although beginning to wonder - and it’s obvious that telling an autistic person to snap out of it will have the opposite effect. Instead trying to work around things and taking notes for next time - leave loads of time at the airport, get a huge apartment, agree who does what in advance - seems like a more considered option.

I literally gave solutions, the same ones you did. Go to the airport early, write a list of things to pack. Solve it this time by going to buy some cutlery on day2 instead of waiting for the DH to “inevitably” get upset with her by day 5. Whats the bloody point in that?

She’s talking like there is nothing that she can do but wait for him to be pissed off with her but there absolutely is.

Here's what I wrote: "DH is also pushing all the usual domestic crap onto me, which doesn’t help. And in a day or so will get pissy and angry at me because I am spoiling his holiday"

Here's what you deduced: Solve it this time by going to buy some cutlery on day2 instead of waiting for the DH to “inevitably” get upset with her by day 5. Whats the bloody point in that? She’s talking like there is nothing that she can do "

The extra three days seem to be assumptions on your part, yes? Why "day 5"? Oh, that's right, because it makes me look passive or foolish.

Frankly, a huge amount of my frustration comes from the fact that DH said that he'd handle the planning for this trip, because (having planned previous holidays and recently handling a mountain of life admin and other crap that would floor anyone) I told him I didn't have it in me to do it this time. Now things like cutlery etc I would be astonished if he could foresee but accurately planning how long it'd take to get to the airport with three children and all their crap during the half term / what kind of accommodation and amenities might be pleasant for all of us / how we'd handle meals while here - that's all bog standard "planning a holiday" stuff, especially when we have money to throw at the problem.

It's continuing to happen, fwiw - he'll "plan" lunch for the kids by buying prawns or something equally alien to them, and then look at me helplessly when they try a bit and then say they're done. I have very limited resources available but he is hugely exacerbating the problem.

@dovess I'm not sure who you're writing about but it isn't me or my family.

Like a PP I'm enjoying the fact that it's the posters on here with supposed deficiencies in empathy and communication who are empathising and making appropriate suggestions while others seem to deliberately mis-read, goad and shitpost.

As I posted before - if the coping strategies necessitate a "half life" (I consider my "limited" life rich and full, thanks - neurotypical people don't get to decide what "normal" looks like), and manifestations of not coping are unacceptable, then what is the autistic person meant to do? There isn't a solution where the autistic person can stop being autistic, even if they try really hard. They can't give the people around them the experience of living with someone who isn't autistic. It's not possible. If there's a neurotypical parent, maybe they can take the lead on doing loud/crowded activities, going on holiday, etc., but there's no ending available where the autistic parent functions in the same way as a neurotypical one. It really sounds like you think autism is a choice.

How was she hiding a diagnosis she didn’t have then?

People are really dumb sometimes. Everyone can understand broken legs and Cancer. Anything else just spins their brain around and they can’t compute.

To be fair, I think it takes most people 3 or 4 days or so to feel settled some place new. Obviously it's going to be harder for you and may take a little longer but no one goes on holiday expecting it to be all relaxation and rainbow sparkles.

Just be kind to yourself, it'll get easier. Do what you can to minimise stress. Spend as much time on the beach or wherever your happiest as possible.

And once you've been to this location once, it'll be easier next time if you want to go again. Everywhere is new until the first time you go.

Sounds like your husband uses weaponised incompetence. Is he the same at home? Like a 4th child?
The prawn situation is easy - you just send him back out to the shop.

Don't fix his messes. He's not 4, he can fix them himself.

@mnhq Why has my post been deleted?

As an autistic woman - like the OP - I’ve found many of the posts on this thread to be cruel, ableist and downright inflammatory. How on earth did my post break the talk guidelines?

I am not sure if the DH is demonstrating weaponised incompetence or just general stupidity.

All those things you said - picking a reasonable time to get to the airport, planning activities for everyone to enjoy and buying appropriate sustenance for younglings - DH would have really struggled with when DS was young, but I suspect if I hadn’t have been there he would have swept into action.

With the benefit of hindsight he should have agreed in advance what feeding the family looked like. As you can afford it I would suggest now is the time to throw money at the problem and suggest either you go out or use local deliveries ( if such things exist).

Would it be easier if you actually went into planning mode and just decided what meals would look like for the rest of the break? Even if that involves making a list for your H? As it doesn’t sound like it’s working for any of you right now.

Also would it work if you acknowledge to him once the DCs are in bed that yes this holiday is a bit tricky and you appreciate the thought - even if that’s not really the truth - and how can you pull together using each other’s strengths and working with everybody's limitations to have the best holiday that is possible ?

I am not autistic so that may not be helpful, but i hope it is a little bit.

@Sodthesystem there's a sort of lasagne of weaponised incompetence. So yes, he chose a lunch that most parents of three year olds would know at a glance wouldn't fly. And I'd love to send him out but... it was on him to make lunch and he faffed so much that it's already past naptime for the younger two and we need to wrap things up or they'll lose it, which would be OK but... he booked accommodation fucking miles from the nearest supermarket, even though on every holiday we enjoy going daily to choose food, which would be ok except.... public transport where we are staying is poor, even though where we are doesn't have much happening so bus/car would be an obvious need. And so on. So I would like the problem to be his to sort, but it'd impact me directly too.

And before anyone starts - at home this is entirely on me and I just get on with it.

@rookiemere that's what we're doing in effect. I'm just so damn tired, and resentful at him having promised to handle all the planning/thinking and then just not following through. I feel like an equivalent would be having a spouse who is a wheelchair user and "just" booking accommodation up five steps.

Why is it OK to have such vitriol towards the dh and this whole shit show is his fault...
He's not doing exactly what the OP wants so he's apparently....
•Using weaponised incompetence
• should have centred the holiday on her.... sod the kids... 'dh did not plan the holiday with your limitations in mind. He may be NT but he is disorganised and chaotic. That would drive me mad, speaking as an NT person. I am not surprised you are doubly stressed by him.'
•Should have made sure they brought brand new cutlery with them
•shouldn't really have planned a holiday at all?

I think the solution is for DH to go away with the children and without you in future? You get a week of peace to decompress and he and the children can go with the flow. If they act up he will soon learn to plan ahead more. He could always take a friend or family member. But personally when I was with my ex I actually preferred holidays with the children without him as I only had to think about the children's needs (he didn't have autism, he just was very self centered)

For the shop- get a taxi and do one big shop. Yes you enjoy going daily to find food but one big shop in a taxi makes the most sense this time. One of you can go and the other stay with the kids if that's easier?