‘Don’t be a tattle tale’

[pearbottomjeans]

I’m always seeing American media (vloggers, tv etc) going on about ‘tattle tales’, ‘don’t tattle’ etc. I just got an instagram ad for a classroom management program thing where you get access to some kids songs, there was a classroom of kids singing along to a song about ‘not tattling’ - ‘when someone does does something wrong, I don’t tattle’…… what’s all that about then? Is it because it’s a nightmare for the teacher to be hearing ‘X did this?’ all day? I often tell my kids to tell the teacher if someone is being mean etc. 🫣 I get that kids need to learn to speak up for themselves but also adults are in their lives to help kids (both to defuse situations and be guided if doing something wrong?).

Anyway, it’s not that deep, no one needs to get mad, I’m merely wondering. Just a small thing that has often perplexed me, and that ad really surprised me!

Also, ‘tattle tale’ as a noun is weird. How can one be a tale? Or is it tail?

Tittle-tattle is gossip. Well it is 'up North' and resonates with people of my age (moreso than younger people)
So, a tattle-tale was a person who enjoyed gossiping, and would happily repeat gossip about one person to another (telling a 'tale')
So def not 'tail', rather tale, as in story...

When I was young it was ‘tell tale tit’ and there was a rhyme, but things have moved on rather, but it was more about ‘Miss, Julie called you a rude name’ kind of tale telling, not so much about SA because we didn’t have any idea about that kind of thing as kids.

Ah, so it’s reserved for petty shit then I guess? The stuff I would tell my kids to ‘just ignore and play with someone else’ rather than tell the teacher.

Tattling is the kind of " jack has 2 rubbers" " molly is not in her line space"
" she took the skipping rope" type of tale telling that really doesn't need to be said.

My mum used to say to us "stop telling tales" If we went to her with petty things that siblings had done.

I grew up in North America and ‘tattling’ was a verb there, and meant telling on someone else who had done trivial things wrong, or possibly even somewhat less trivial but that were not your business. It wasn’t about not telling on someone who was being mean or anything, but someone who was breaking some rule or do something they shouldn’t but that didn’t really affect you.

I remember Suzie Dent in one of her language posts or podcasts talking about a group of words that developed a few centuries ago that were this combination of a verb-noun, always in that order, forming a new noun, and they were usually negative things - like being a ‘cut-purse’ or a ‘pick-poscket’. So ‘tattle-tale’ would fit that pattern though I don’t know if it was in use then.

Possibly some danger of this message not translating well to the UK - it could be interpreted as 'don't tell tales' which could discourage reporting of bullying or even abuse. I understand that isn't the US meaning and 'tattle taling' refers specifically to trivial misdemeanours, but it's not a common phrase throughout the UK and the nuance might be lost.

Yes, it's discouraging kids from making a fuss about insignificant things.

As for the word, it can be 'tattle-tale' or 'tell-tale' - i.e. soneone who tells tales. The 'tale' bit isn't the person, it's the tale (i.e. story) they are telling.

Got it! Makes sense. I guess kids just get a feel for the line between tattling and things that actually need adult involvement. And adults probably see repeat offenders ‘tattling’ about little things and that’s where tattling becomes and problem.

Except those things do need to be said.

Jack probably shouldn’t have two rubbers.

Molly should be in her line space.

X shouldn’t have stolen the skipping rope.

It’s a way to stop kids complaining about bullying. It’s sad. They can’t tell the teacher because then they are a tattle tale and they are not old enough to know what’s serious and what isn’t so they stay silent and miserable. If the parents approach the school asking why their kid is suddenly miserable the teacher will shrug and say the kid hasn’t mentioned anything to them.

This is what I thought tbh

Maybe I am wrong but there is something childishly admirable about kids refusing to report on one another to the authorities; I think the term 'tattle tale' comes from a time when schools and parents were a lot more draconian. Since you refer to the US, have you read Tom Sawyer? The example would be Tom refusing to tell on Becky and accepting punishment on her behalf. A more grown up version would be in Huckleberry Finn, when Huck doesn't give tell on Jim and saves him from the slave catchers.

My guideline would be: Tell a teacher if it's to to get someone OUT of trouble, not when it's to get someone IN trouble.

I think that covers most situations where a teacher needs to be told- bullying and serious problems like drugs. It also teaches kids to think about whether they are being a busybody, a gossip, or an attention seeker, OR whether they are genuinely trying to increase the justice and kindness in the world.

Yep! Petty stuff that I don’t need to know about. It’s incessant in primary!

My stock reply is, “Why are you telling me this?” Usually they just repeat it with ‘added detail’!
E.g

Tattler: Luke hasn’t underlined the date Miss Beegu!

Me: Why are you telling me this?

Tattler: He hasn’t underlined the LO either!

Me: Are you telling me this just to get him in trouble? (This is DEFINITELY the reason 🤦‍♀️)

Tattler: But it’s TRUUUUUE!

Me: 🤯

And so it goes on…and on…and on!!

As a teacher and parent someone who tells tales on someone else is very irritating especially when it’s such minor things (someone using 3 colours on their art instead of 2 etc) and things that don’t concern them. I always encourage my dc to speak up if they’ve been hurt or see someone else being hurt, but otherwise I would tell my dc that it’s none of their business and let the teacher deal with it.

Some of these replies are nonsense. Some children tell tales to the complete detriment of doing anything useful themselves. They are far too concerned about what others are doing and don't get anything done themselves. You literally wouldn't be able to teach if you allowed 2 or 3 children in every class to complain about every perceived issue.

I go to a class on supply where I reckon thirty percent of my time is dealing with telling tales. Jim dropped rubber. Summer’s pencil broke.

And the problem is, that you have to listen to all of them because if you don’t answer with kindness and understanding then a parent will complain that Julian was trying to tell you that Jim had dropped his rubber and Julian says that you told him that is wasn’t important and all I’m trying to do is raise my son to #BeKind.

It’s not “Lucy pushed me over” or “Mrs Smith didn’t give me a dinner”. It’s nonsense.

I think a lot of it is the need for an interaction with a grown up. They can predict that they will be listened to. What I am finding at the moment is that you can be dealing with something quite important like a bleeding knee or listening to a child read and a a child will come and stand between the adult and the child who the adult is with and tell them something unnecessary. Even if you ask them if they are sure it’s very important because there is blood they will tell you it is.

Except those things DONT need to be said!

If each child concentrates on doing the right thing themselves rather than worrying about what other people are doing, then everything will work better.

Same for adults!

Do children understand the nuance of what is trivial and what is serious and therefore justified in telling an adult?

The term "tell-tale" is the UK version and I've always believed it applied to any situation of "telling" or informing. "Grass" and "snitch" would be used for older children and adults.

It's a way to make people socially conform to not reporting things of concern. You see similar on here sometimes, a poster is concerned about a situation and get responses "keep your nose out of it" or "do nothing, it's nothing to do with you".

No it isn't. Schools are constantly talking to kids about bullying, explaining what constitutes bullying, explaining why it's important to report bullying and reminding them that they can talk to whichever member of staff they feel most comfortable discussing it with.

Yeah I think kids do know the difference by school and it’s also a parent’s job to know that they do. Discouraging kids from grassing on each other for every little thing also means they learn to sort out minor things between themselves instead of always expecting parents to referee- if adults always step in then those kids grow into young adults who really struggle with peer to peer conflict which is a normal part of life.

From what I’ve seen schools do also teach the difference between “Jack’s got two rubbers” and “Jack’s got a zombie knife in his bag and says he’s going to chiv me up at lunch”.

Interesting to hear adults' perspectives on young children's behaviour.

It seems an understandable use of the term in that context but certainly between peers I would argue it's used (similar to grass and snitch) to try to stop someone reporting something to a person in authority.

There's an episode of Little Lunch that illustrates the difference nicely between what needs to be told and what doesn’t.

I sometimes use the line from that, "Do I need to know that Debra-Jo?" with my 7 year old and it does make her think whether it's something she actually needs to report or it's a silly argument with her brother she's trying to leverage.

Why do they need to be said? Not every perceived mistake or wrongdoing has to be reported 🫤

This is such a tricky area isn't it?

I imagine as a teacher it can be extremely disruptive having to deal with 15 reports of how Molly has an elicit pencil case.

But we are then expecting young children to have an understanding of the difference between a petty wrong and a serious wrong.

Emily might think that Archie not underlining his work is wrong because it's against the rules. She also might think that Archie asking her to show him her pants is also wrong because it's against the rules.

But how is she to understand that the first isn't really something to bother an adult with, whilst the second absolutely is?

To her, they are both wrong.

Don't tell tales is a really dangerous message to give to children if there's no thought in how that message is delivered.