‘Don’t be a tattle tale’

[pearbottomjeans]

I’m always seeing American media (vloggers, tv etc) going on about ‘tattle tales’, ‘don’t tattle’ etc. I just got an instagram ad for a classroom management program thing where you get access to some kids songs, there was a classroom of kids singing along to a song about ‘not tattling’ - ‘when someone does does something wrong, I don’t tattle’…… what’s all that about then? Is it because it’s a nightmare for the teacher to be hearing ‘X did this?’ all day? I often tell my kids to tell the teacher if someone is being mean etc. 🫣 I get that kids need to learn to speak up for themselves but also adults are in their lives to help kids (both to defuse situations and be guided if doing something wrong?).

Anyway, it’s not that deep, no one needs to get mad, I’m merely wondering. Just a small thing that has often perplexed me, and that ad really surprised me!

Also, ‘tattle tale’ as a noun is weird. How can one be a tale? Or is it tail?

Learning is important, that’s why they are there. Nobody’s can learn what they are supposed to learn if I have to hear about Jack’s rubbers because as soon as you have heard about Jack’s rubbers then you have to hear about a scratch that someone else got last week when they were at Go Ape.

I don’t care that Jack has two rubbers. I don’t care about fronted adverbials very much either but that’s why we are there. Not to talk about Jack and his two rubbers.

Gosh your teachers must have found you super irritating! 😅

Accountability for what, though?

Accountability for their behaviour. If they aren’t doing anything wrong, then there is no problem.

Incredibly, no 😅 I won the good child award nearly every week. You know, back in the days before we had to give it to every PITA just to make them feel included.

Accountability for their behaviour. If they aren’t doing anything wrong, then there is no problem.

1984 wasn't a handbook or a guide

That is the point of my quote.

If Jim is hurting Susie, Susie needs your help to get OUT of trouble. You might need to tell a teacher about that.

@TheJollyMoose do you really think this is what teachers should spend their time dealing with?

My own anecdotal evidence is the opposite of this.
My older sister and I had a very enclosed child world that we played in. We didn't involve my mum, or any other adult, in anything. We sorted out problems between us, whether it was something we'd broken, or one of us hitting the other - we didn't appeal to adult authority, ever. When my little brother got old enough to join us in our play we were horrified at the way he'd call on mum for every little thing (in our opinion).

As adults, he is the by far and away the most successful of the three of us. He is so upfront and straightforward. He got a six week public service contract when he was a young backpacker, and by the end of the six weeks he was team leader, he still lives in the country where he got the job and has risen the ranks. People actually really like impartial straighforwardness in adults. There are no special arrangements or secret deals or any confusion about what's expected of anyone. If there's a "no running" rule then noone gets to run. I think this drives a grade three teacher nuts but the same child will be doing well in adulthood.

But this isn't new in the UK at all. Books from my childhood (think Malory Towers and Chalet School) has many messages on the evilness of telling tales.

It’s all the usual silliness until someone uses the word “grass” especially if the child in question is trying to make the behaviour of others stop. Widespread in Liverpool and now leaching over to Wirral. It’s a pathetic term for a child to be landed with when others are so clearly at fault. Civility has gone to the dogs. People go so hard on being judged for their poor behaviour that they’d rather make a victim of the person who tries to pull them up on it.

There are plenty of occasions where children really should tell tales so it’s stupid and dangerous to discourage it.

But then it’s not telling tales.

Telling tales refers to minor stuff that isn’t hurting anyone. The tale-teller is trying to get someone into trouble. A child yesterday in the play park came up to her dad to inform him that some other children in the group had taken their shoes off. She wanted them to be told off for this.

We teach children at school about big deal, little deal. I say please tell a grown up straight away if someone might get hurt, someone is being unkind (this can be too widely interpreted!) or something damaged. It’s difficult to teach the difference.

A child who informs on their peers for minor things like having two rubbers or sticking their tongue out is not going to have many friends as they get older - they need to be guided.

In Scotland it’s called cliping. I would (privately) think of a child who wanted to get others into trouble for minor infringements as ‘a wee clipe’!

I always ask tell tales "is your name in this story?"
If it is "Johnny took my pencil" - then fine, tell me.
If it isn't "Johnny took Emma's pencil" then keep it to yourself.

If Susie has a problem, she can tell me.
I don't need a 3rd party involving themselves.

I don’t actually agree with this. There might be many reasons why Suzie might never tell you she has a problem. Also , she might not be able to tell you while she’s being hit, but another child can so you can stop it at one hit, rather than 5 or whatever.

I didn't find that we were confused as children about what 'tattling' meant, nor we were discouraged from reporting serious issues. The clue was in the word: "tattle", and we learned that it was about petty things (tittle-tattle, trivia, etc). Even the language used in phrases like "tell on" reinforces that. It's not 'telling' about something serious, it's 'telling ON' someone, i.e., getting them in trouble. Occasionally a shorthand that leaves out the 'on' is used ("I'm telling...") but there it's implied (tone of voice etc).

It's a different sense of the word from "don't tell Mum" or "if you tell anyone, I will..." warnings/threats. Or the later grass/snitch accusations, where things that should be reported are not.

The distinction is subtle, and yes it takes children a while to learn what falls into different categories, but there was nothing confusing about the concept of tattling (bad) and reporting things that needed to be dealt with (good) when we were children. The language differences are like lots of language differences, subtle to an outsider but obvious to those in the situation.

But that’s not telling tales.

Nope. Susie might not be able to tell you.