‘Don’t be a tattle tale’

[pearbottomjeans]

I’m always seeing American media (vloggers, tv etc) going on about ‘tattle tales’, ‘don’t tattle’ etc. I just got an instagram ad for a classroom management program thing where you get access to some kids songs, there was a classroom of kids singing along to a song about ‘not tattling’ - ‘when someone does does something wrong, I don’t tattle’…… what’s all that about then? Is it because it’s a nightmare for the teacher to be hearing ‘X did this?’ all day? I often tell my kids to tell the teacher if someone is being mean etc. 🫣 I get that kids need to learn to speak up for themselves but also adults are in their lives to help kids (both to defuse situations and be guided if doing something wrong?).

Anyway, it’s not that deep, no one needs to get mad, I’m merely wondering. Just a small thing that has often perplexed me, and that ad really surprised me!

Also, ‘tattle tale’ as a noun is weird. How can one be a tale? Or is it tail?

Except, a lot of them don’t. They really , really don’t, to the point where they’ll actually interrupt a lesson because Suzie broke a pencil or John is scribbling on his white board.
Every year we have to have regular chats along the lines of “is it bothering you, is it affecting/hurting you, is it interfering with your learning , if not I don’t need to know about it” and more importantly that we’re not as blind, deaf or stupid as they think we are and we’ll deal with whatever at the appropriate time(preferably not during input).

Imagine this . Right before lunch , so busy and noisy and slightly chaotic anyways, dealing with medication dosage and needles and stuff.

Kid: miss! Miss ! Miss!

me: give me a second, I’m dealing with something right now.

kid: but miiiiss! Miss! Miss! Miss! (Pokes me in the arm twice too)

me: jimmy, not now! If it’s that urgent go to miss x.

kid: why are you always sooo rude? (Runs away wailing)

After lunch we had a chat and turns out he wanted to tell me Mary had the hiccups.

FML

Honestly, as a teacher, with small children it is never ending. They literally tell to get other people in trouble. Some of them continue this behaviour as they get older and they stick out like a sore thumb. I remember one time saying to a year 6 pupil who’d told me that Jess had underlined her date in the wrong colour ‘what do you want me to do? Do you want me to shout at her?’ To which she sheepishly replied ‘yes…’ so I mock shouted at Jess and the child saw how ridiculous the situation was. At that age ‘grass’ or ‘snitch’ is more commonly used.

it is a tough line for children to learn what is important to tell adults and what is not. Some children take longer than others to get it!

How do you/they know though?

How do they know Jack wasn’t taken into care last night and got given a rubber by a member of staff because it’s a stupid ,silly thing that made him feel better for 30 seconds.

How do they know Molly’s place in the line hasn’t been actually changed and for a good reason? Or that she hasn’t got permission because once again, it’s a small comfort for a crappy situation.

How do they know the kid that took (not stolen) the skipping rope wasn’t given permission or was asked to do so by a member of staff?

And honestly… why do they care? Unless Jack took their rubber and that’s why he has two. Or Molly is in their line space so they can’t line up properly anymore, or whatever situation where it’s actually an issue FOR them.

Absolutely and maybe this is something that could be worked on at home. The curriculum is jam packed enough as it is.

Tell-tale tit
Your tounge shall split
And all the little birdies shall have a little bit

I remember my y4 teacher reciting it in the days before y4 was a thing

It's about cutting out frequent petty complaints about little things that are doing no harm in the big picture. Most are ignorable, or can be easily resolved without adult intervention. Children need to learn to sort little issues out for themselves anyway, and it distracts the adults in charge from bigger issues and the needs of everyone else in the room. Some children also do it maliciously to get others in to trouble or for attention- it's not always motivated by a glowing sense of justice.

It's easier to listen to and respond appropriately to the big issues that do need adult intervention when not overloaded with petty gripes.

No, that's not right.

Kids know the difference between Johnny keeps hitting me and Susie said the teacher has funny shoes.

Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps copying my work, Miss.
What shall I do?

Go and sit in the hall, dear.
Go and sit in the sink.
Take your books on the roof, my lamb.
Do whatever you think.

Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps taking my rubber, Miss.
What shall I do?

Keep it in your hand, dear.
Hide it up your vest.
Swallow it if you like, love.
Do what you think best.

Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps calling me rude names, Miss.
What shall I do?

Lock yourself in the cupboard, dear.
Run away to sea.
Do whatever you can, my flower.
But don't ask me!
Allan Ahlberg

It's part of the learning process so that they do understand the difference, it's called teaching and parenting.

Tell a teacher if it's to to get someone OUT of trouble, not when it's to get someone IN trouble.

This is an excellent rule of thumb.

Haha I recited that one in a show in primary school

Sounds like an Americanism for being a tell-tale tit - or at least that's what we called it at school.

Ha ha, yes this. I feel times have changed now where we tell our kids to speak up if they see something wrong (within reason of course)

Why do they need to be said?

Adults have high expectations of children's understanding. I think the whole don't be a tattle tale boils down to adults telling children 'dont bother me' and 'get over it'. I do understand that it must be frustrating for teachers to be constantly interrupted

Most children take what is said literally. I personally think that it's not right that young children (3/4/5/6 yr olds) are taught not to 'tell tales'.

As many mentioned above, it is to teach them not to get others in trouble over seemingly meaningless behaviour (eg the 2 rubbers as a PP mentioned), but then it can become confusing for a child to know when to tell a trusted adult something that's bothering them.

Children are constantly being told to tell adults if someone is doing something wrong, but then get told off for telling tales.

What if they should get into trouble?
I saw Jim hitting Susie. Do we say no telling tales? Perhaps sometimes tales need to be told.

To be fair , most schools I’m aware of don’t use that term or “snitching/grassing”. What me and my colleagues tend to do is reply with “thank you for telling me /thank you for telling me I’ll sort it/deal with it”. I admit, the 7th time in 15 minutes we might get a bit short and ask “is it actually affecting you?” or “worry about your own behaviour “.

The thing is , a lot of kids want to get their peers in trouble and want it to happen now, and publicly. I literally had kids trying to follow me to SEE me tell another child off or ask me if I did and what exactly did I say. That’s for trivial stuff, not someone being harmed either physically or emotionally.

So we have A LOT of check list stuff talks and reminders about what and when to ignore, what and when they can deal with it themselves , what and when to tell an adult with concrete examples.

In this case, Susie would be in trouble. Therefore someone should be told.

What was that rhythm, it’s driving me mad I can’t remember. Did it have a line about your knickers being thrown over some line?
I can remember feeling so naughty chanting that.

Nothing you’ve said here changes anything. It doesn’t matter whether or not the kid telling knows if the kid doing X should or shouldn’t be doing it.

Even if all the kids have special circumstances/reasons/excuses (and let’s be honest here, the majority don’t and are just PITAs), the kid doing the telling is still doing the right thing by telling an adult so the adult can ascertain whether or not X should be doing it.

What if Hitler came in riding on a spaceship?

Why though? Why does the adult NEED to know that Jack has two rubbers?

Tale is another word for story/yarn isn't it?

I think it's to stop kids reporting all the irrelevant stuff

'Jack looked at me funny'
'Mary said dogs are smelly'
'x did y' (when it's already been dealt with)

it gets very tiring listening to this stuff every 5 mins. I vaguely remember our school doing an assembly on things that are a big deal or little deal. Big deal tell an adult, little deal, don't.

Accountability is important.

Accountability for..?