Police arrest parents who slate school on class WhatsApp

[noblegiraffe]

A primary school sought advice from the police after '“a high volume of direct correspondence and public social media posts” that had become upsetting for staff, parents and governors.' and the police response was to send 6 officers to their house to arrest the couple making the posts and put them in a cell all day.

Although the couple sound like an absolute pain in the arse who should pack it in, 6 police officers seems like a teensy bit of overkill, particularly with the amount of crime currently going uninvestigated. But with schools faced with spiralling numbers of vexatious parental complaints, something needs to happen. I think some unions are starting to offer legal advice and template solicitor letters for this situation.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/d8c8566b-99b1-45c6-814b-008042d74a3a?shareToken=6deab807d148cf7695ed4d9d3664c51e

Are you sure you are not thinking of another article?
The worst I managed to find was Rosalind saying that someone hasn't got a clue about anything.

You mention verbatim quotes - which say what, exactly? Where are the insults?

If it's so evident, so right there, can you help me understand what these insults are?

If their messages were fine, why was someone screenshotting them and sending them to the school?

@noblegiraffe The question remains the same: how do you know that these messages were truly insulting, as the school said? How do you know the school was right? Do you believe the school because you want to?

Is your line of reasoning: well, if someone was sending screenshots to the school, then surely the messages were offensive, even if I don't know what they were saying? Is that it? Really?

Do people normally screenshot messages and send them to the headteacher when there's nothing to them? Make that make sense.

I believe the school. Let's hope they don't harass and bully the new school.

@noblegiraffe OK, so you have confirmed my point: you don't know what they said, but you simply assume that it must have been bad, because you think that otherwise no one would have sent a screenshot to the teacher.

BTW, you are a perfect example of why a jury trial with a jury of ordinary people doesn't work!!

Is it possible? Yes.
Is it proven? No

How come no one has come forward to confirm: yes, they actually called the teachers <bad word 1> and <bad word 2> ?

@DelphineFox I believe the school. Let's hope they don't harass and bully the new school.

Another confirmation bias champion. And why do you believe the school, if I may ask?

I note that you haven't actually answered my question.

Do you need me to repeat it or am I to conclude that you can't come up with an explanation other than someone who had read them thought that there was an issue?

BTW we know they called the headteacher a control freak.

@noblegiraffe What is there to answer?

They sent the screenshots ----> so of course the screenshots must have contained insults does not hold.

Is it possible? yes. Is it proven? No

Control freak? So the only word that has emerged so far is "control freak"? Calling someone a control freak is an abuse that makes the parents bullies? really???

You don't know the backgroound, you don't know what the situation was, but you have decided a priori. Shame on you.

Note that I am not saying the parents are right. Schools are full of unhinged parents. These parents could well be the most obnoxious insufferable couple ever.

I am simply saying you shouldn't jump to conclusions if you don't know the facts. And you don't.

I really wish mumsnet had a block button to block all the nonsense of these prejudiced, biased people

What's your alternative explanation for someone taking screenshots and sending them to the headteacher?

@noblegiraffe Thank you for confirming that the worst term you are aware of was "control freak".

There can be a gazillion explanations.

Maybe who sent the screenshot is friends with a teacher or the headteacher.
Maybe, like you, they mistakenly thought that calling someone a control freak is bullying
Maybe they just didn't get along with the couple and wanted to get back at them
Maybe that person was at odds with the couple because the couple wanted something that would have affected this person negatively

Or maybe the couple were obnoxious bullies and this person was genuinely concerned.

Neither of us knows what happened.

I have had bad experiences with schools, but I don't let that taint my judgement, I don't jump to a biased conclusion. I suspend judgement, because I don't know, and neither do you.

Yet you jump to the unsubstantiated conclusion which fits your narrative and your preconceptions.

You have bored me now. Goodbye

I was about to ask you next why the couple was banned from the school site.

ParentOfOne

We do not know many things

But we do know that the police were heavy handed.

We also know that the parents have not tried to sue the school, if they were so convinced that the school was wrong they could try and take them to court for
Breach of EHCP (although this would be the LA)
They could take them to court for banning them from the school grounds
They could even try for defamation of character.
And being part of the MSM they could have had the story printed fully and as long as they used facts they would be OK. They could even get away with an opinion piece. But they haven't

So can we infer that the school was correct for banning them from the school grounds?

How much does litigation cost? That someone doesn't take legal action doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong

And being part of the MSM they could have had the story printed fully and as long as they used facts they would be OK. They could even get away with an opinion piece. But they haven't

But they have given their versions of the events in multiple interviews.
And The Guardian says the couple wants the Department of Education to conduct a full review of what happened.
This sounds pretty similar to what you describe

So can we infer that the school was correct for banning them from the school grounds?

If you and I don't know the school, then no.
Someone who knows the schools and might have reason to think that the school is in general reasonable might infer that

What's their version of why they got banned from the school site?

I don't know - do you?

There have been cases of schools banning parents who had complained about teachers talking about trans identity to 10-year olds and telling them they could change their gender.

I don't know the specifics, I don't know if it was done in an age-appropriate manner or not, and if the parent banned had been abusive or reasonable.

One thing that sounds odd to me is this: I get it that the school cannot talk about the specifics of the case publicly, but, if the couple had abused them verbally with slurs and insults, wouldn't the school be allowed to report that?

The school cannot say that the disagreement was over medical condition X of the child, but is the school also prevented from reporting that the parents called them <slur> and <bad insult> ? Is that protected by privacy GDPR or whatever?

I don't know - do you?

Yes. The couple's version of this is certainly in the public domain.

They said they had questioned hiring decisions at the school and had complaints related to their disabled child.

I don't think the school ever said much other than they used disparaging language.

I don't know at what stage they were banned from the school, if that's what you mean

For the same reason some people will screenshot fb posts about a teacher being out drinking/drunk on a Saturday night I imagine. They have nothing more exciting to do with their lives than try and stir up drama where there is none.

ParentOfOne

I don't think the school ever said much other than they used disparaging language.

The school thought that the parents had done enough to go to the police for advice, this is highly unusual for any school, as is banning parents from the school grounds.

Neither is a step that schools take lightly.

You keep pushing for answers that nobody can give you

You say

"The one things that is clear from this thread is how stupid, arrogant and biased most people are."

and

"I have had bad experiences with schools, but I don't let that taint my judgement, I don't jump to a biased conclusion. I suspend judgement, because I don't know, and neither do you."

But it seems that you do have the same cognitive bias that you say other have and that you don't suspend judgement.

I can only speak from my experiences of being a teacher and working in schools.

Schools don't always get things right, but things have gone very wrong if the parents are banned from the site and some of the responsibility for that must remain with the parents, Because I have seen parents give out some serious shit including threats of violence and not be banned form the site.

If you have read this far well done because here is the twist.

I honestly believe (Just my opinion) that if the parents were just getting under the skin of the teachers then very little would have happened, but they decided to have a go at the SLT and governors, and that in my opinion is why they got banned and the police asked for help. (but that is my bias, and my experience).

@FrippEnos But it seems that you do have the same cognitive bias that you say other have and that you don't suspend judgement.

How so? I have been adamant that I know all too well that it's full of unhinged parents, and I have admitted multiple times that it is entirely possible that these two were obnoxious bullies.
I didn't say they aren't. I said I don't know. So I suspend judgement.

Where is the cognitive bias in suspending judgment when you don't have all the facts?

Schools don't always get things right, but things have gone very wrong if the parents are banned from the site and some of the responsibility for that must remain with the parents, Because I have seen parents give out some serious shit including threats of violence and not be banned form the site

Who is showing cognitive bias now?
You are basically saying: in my school this would only happen if the parents were guilty, so it's likely they'll be guilty in this case, too

You are behaving like the parents who didn't think there was a climate of exploitation and fear at Holland Park School (confirmed by an enquiry), or that Mossbourne Academy could have seminars on how to shout and instil healthy fear in children, just because these things didn't happen in their schools.

I honestly believe (Just my opinion) that if the parents were just getting under the skin of the teachers then very little would have happened, but they decided to have a go at the SLT and governors, and that in my opinion is why they got banned and the police asked for help. (but that is my bias, and my experience)

Yes, but I still wonder what having a go meant. So far all we know is that he called the head a control freak.

They complained about the hiring process of the new headteacher, they made disparaging remarks about the leadership. They set up a private Facebook group to complain about the school.

It was also reported that they were questioned by the police about causing a nuisance on school property.

We also know that after the ban, Maxie Allen lamented no longer being able to just pop into the school office whenever he liked.

Little glimpses of what happened if you choose to pay attention to them.

I have already admitted to my bias, its a shame that you cannot admit to yours.

"Yes, but I still wonder what having a go meant. So far all we know is that he called the head a control freak."

And we will never know.

You will have to trust that the school and SLT were correct, or believe that the SLT were wrong either way we/you will have to live with knowing that it is a question that we will never have an actual answer to.

Why? I believe the parents. But only our prejudices determine this. I am not right neither are you. It’s been acknowledged that arguments between parents and teaching staff are not arrestable matters unless hate speak or threats of violence were involved which they clearly were not.

@frippenos I have already admitted to my bias, its a shame that you cannot admit to yours.

You haven't answered my question: what would be the bias in suspending judgement when one doesn't know all the facts?

@noblegiraffe
We also know that after the ban, Maxie Allen lamented no longer being able to just pop into the school office whenever he liked.

I wasn't aware of this. This tips the scale towards them being bullies, at least a bit, I think.

This does. That they once called the head a control freak doesn't.

I said to build a picture of what happened.