Adolescence- what would happen to Jamie in RL? Do you think he could be rehabilitated or would there be no hope?

[HariboFrenzy]

Really enjoyed this series and was sobbing at the end. Such a waste of lives - Katie's of course but also Jamie's.

On another thread someone commented that they felt there was hope for Jamie, given he was taking accountability finally in changing his plea and re-discovering his art. I'm interested to know if people agree with this or if instead you think Jamie was dangerous and would only be more so by the time he gets released?

If it was real life, how long would his sentence likely be? And would he have any chance at having a good life?

I think that there is always a possibility of rehabilitating people but it’s more likely that they go further down the dark path. For example Robert Thompson (one of the James Bulger killers) got his GCSEs in prison and never reoffended (happy to be corrected on this ) where as Venables took the more usual path of returning to prison (possession of child abuse images iirc)

With recent femicides like this the perpetrators have got life imprisonment.

What we should be talking about is how to prevent it leading to murder and intervening earlier

He would receive a mandatory sentence of detention at his majesty's pleasure. Basically a life sentence. The starting point for the minimum time to serve is 12 years, with time added on for aggravating factors and deducted for mitigating factors. Approx a third reduction for guilty plea. Not a lawyer but from experience in this field would have thought a minimum time to serve of around 10 to 12 years

Depending on sentencing, he could be out in his 30’s and still live a life. He would spend 5 years in YOI before going to adult prison. His influences there would determine what kind of adult came out of it.

What ever you want to happen because Jamie is not a real person.

I appreciate he would have a life, unlike his victim,* *but what kind of a life would he have? He'd finish growing up in a YOI, he'd obviously have a criminal record so chances of employment vastly reduced. It's bleak for him is it not? Such a waste.

Obviously, which is why I said in 'Real Life'. Jamie may be fictional but the inspiration was taken from real life events.

The Bulger killers never saw the inside of an adult prison cell for what they did to James, but they were a few years younger than 13 years old when they committed the offence.

The system does not like to institutionalise children without exceptionally good cause to do so.

Scotland's youngest killer was only 11 when he murdered and like the Bulger killers never seen the inside of an adult prison cell.

Plenty of people have fresh starts after Youth Offending, Thompson of the Jamie Bulger case is said to lead a normal life but he does have the benefit of a new identity

Same question posed in Boy A (with Andrew Garfield).

Starting point of 13 years because of his age and because he took a knife to the scene. Reduction for guilty plea at a late stage, but not trial probably 25%, so a starting point of just under 10 years. Obviously may not be released after that time, but that's roughly what the minimum tariff would be.

So could be out any time from 26ish.

Did that sound clever in your head?

You should have put a spoiler alert in your title.

I'd just started watching the first episode.

Then I clicked on this thread. Now I know that jamie dies.

Why do you think that?

Jamie's life is 'wasted' because he's in prison, locked up, not living life as a typical teenager. He will always carry the murder around with him as a burden/taunt that he won't be able to shake off.

Spoiler alert he doesn't die. It's Katie that is dead as we find out in the first episode.

Spoiler alert Jamie does not die!

Regarding OP's question: yes there is hope. Jamie is only 13 so there is definitely the chance of rehabilitation, both in fiction and for Jamies in real life.

I didn't really care what happened to him. He was some little shit who murdered a girl because she rejected him.

Do you care about the teenager who stabbed that girl in the neck over a teddy bear? How about the teenager that stabbed a 12 year old in a shopping centre?

He came from a decent background, has supportive family, doesn't have serious mental health problems, was intelligent and has social skills. He didn't have a history of aggression, so I'm sure if he kept his head down, he'd do ok.

I didn't fully understand the character. If Jamie had been more vulnerable and less intelligent, with a shitty background with maybe a history of violence himself then I could understand the very agressive outburst in the episode with the psychologist. That was some outstanding acting in that episode, the way he switched from calm to having a complete outburst and actually scaring the psychologist was brilliant to watch.

BUT it totally confused me as to what character they were trying to make out Jamie to be. Such an outburst made him seem almost psychopathic, going from calm and reasonable to the complete opposite. So for me then became this very calculating and violent person instead of a naiive young boy who had been completely led astray by the incel community.

We didn't see any recent history either, so no idea how he treated his mum and sister, for example, no concerning comments or behaviour towards women which he may or may not have displayed. As his sister seemed very supportive of him in episode 4, despite what he'd done in, I can only assume they had always had a very good relationship. None of his teachers seemed to mention any issues with attitude towards women and the female teachers themselves. I worked for many years in a boys' secondary school, and you do get a real feel of which boys are less respectful towards women just because of their gender, and by the comments they make about women and girls in general.

So for that reason I have no idea if someone like that could be rehabilitated or not because although the actor who played Jamie was outstanding, I don't think the writers really knew exactly what they wanted to create with the character.

Could people have better views if they study eg Nietzschean concepts, particularly the idea of the Übermensch—a "superman" who creates his own moral values in a godless world.

@CurlyhairedAssassin how he was in that room with the psychologist is exactly how so many perpetrators of violence are. Perfectly nice til something triggers them. And the trigger will generally be from a person he thinks is more vulnerable than them. Then you see what they are capable of, what lies beneath their mask.
In some ways the ones from 'nice' families can be more tricky. They have been raised by pro social people, they feel comfortable conversing with educated professionals, they can mask well.

Bloody brilliant series / film (can’t remember which it was). Great book too. Based on Robert Thompson I believe (or rather, ‘inspired’ by).

I know. I know families like that. The adults at any rate. Nice to you until their wants are thwarted and then they COMPLETELY change. It's scary stuff to see. On the surface no-one they see regularly at a superficial level would ever see them as anything but charming, chatty, polite etc. Probably most would never know that they had done time for GBH or armed robbery, major drug dealing etc. And yes, they kind of groom their children into that lifestyle, starting in earnest in the teenage years but often even before that if the children are very unlucky.

But I just didn't get that from the family portrayed here. The dad said he'd never even been inside a police station. So he hadn't even been a jack the lad in his youth. He appeared to work hard in a trade. Normal life. I didn't see his wife or daughter physically flinch from him, they seemingly weren't accustomed to violence in the home. They were uncomfortable at the extreme outburst in the DIY store. It was clearly not behaviour they had seen before in him, and it upset them.

But the whole family had been under immense stress. Jamie had committed murder, I can't even imagine what it's like to have the kind of grenade thrown into your life. Then the car being vandalised, all the scrutiny of the neighbours. (How come no sight of any press anywhere, BTW? Odd). Anyone would be on the edge of breakdown. And then the lad approaching him in the DIY store suggesting he'd have the support of the incel community (which i think would never have happened but anyway), he was probably thinking WTF, his world would have been spinning, he had had no clue about that world, he hadn't even heard of it.

I didn't understand some of the procedural elements. Why was the dad allowed to be the responsible adult? He was a potential witness. He could have been covering for him, concealed the weapon, anything. That was the most perplexing thing about the whole thing. But he wasn't even asked questions in a separate room such as "What time did your son come home last night? Did you see him come home?" etc etc. Digital forensics procedures weren't clear blah blah.

With the right support, yes I think he could definitely be rehabilitated. It would take a lot of therapy and education but I'm sure it's possible. He was only 13 it would he too depressing to think that his character was fully formed with no hope of redemption.

Are you thinking about a different series? Nothing in OPs post says anything like that

Honestly , in real life it would depend where he spent the early time in custody. He’d be in a secure children’s home until the age of 15/16. He could stay there till 18 however this would depend on his level of risk within the secure setting.
At 15/16 he could go to a YOI - judging on Wetherby YOI’s last one it’s violent … https://imb.org.uk/news/high-levels-of-violence-impacting-the-operation-of-hmyoi-wetherby/

He then get moved into the adult estate at 18 to finish out the end of his sentence. He would serve 12/15 years maybe a period on licence, then he’d be open to probation for a period of time.

Probation could help him find employment, he’d be able to gain his gcse and a’levels.
His offence will always be there on a DBS, enhanced and standard